Kore is dead; long live … Maschine.

Native Instruments announced this week that they’re discontinuing the Kore product line, focusing those energies on the host-plus-sampling groovebox Maschine.

Kore was an approach to making instruments and processing more manageable and tactile, coupling a hardware interface and standard control mappings with a hosting tool. What first drew me to Kore, personally, was the idea of setting up that host not only as a way of managing presets and the like, but building performance rigs and making them tactile. (I used a number of Kore-based rigs in the production of my recent album.) CDM also, as disclosure and reference, collaborated with Native Instruments to document uses of Kore and the rest of their line on our Kore minisite.

The free Kore Player is immediately discontinued, a casualty of the decision, and you won’t be able to buy Kore. The good news for Kore users is, a set of updates accompany the announcement:

First, an update with the latest sound engines. Schedule: third quarter.

Next, 64-bit support for Mac and Windows. Schedule: fourth quarter.

That would make Kore continue to be useful. Here’s the bad news, however: “Future versions of the Komplete bundle and of individual NI instruments might no longer be fully compatible with Kore, and will not include special preset versions for its sound browser.”

Instead, Maschine, not Kore, will get a free update that incorporates new preset management and parameter mapping features – Maschine now does some of what Kore did. But Maschine doesn’t yet offer some of the other unique features of Kore in terms of its utility functions and modules, its slim, slick touch-based interactive controller, and its performance setup.

To me, it looks like a decision that makes sense – but one that will also be tough for users to swallow. The maintenance updates to Kore are offset by potential incompatibility with future Komplete releases. And while there’s a crossgrade, it’s not inexpensive, because Maschine, too, relies on hardware for control. Through the end of the year, Maschine is US$449 (EUR399). I’d like to see Native Instruments, which recently underwent corporate restructuring, focus more closely on their software range to avoid these kinds of discontinuations. Even when they’re the right choice, they can be tough for users. It’s a particular challenge for a developer like NI that has always released a range of products instead of one flagship. NI, for their part, also tells CDM it was a difficult decision to make.

What made Kore unique also made it hard to support from the beginning: its ambitious combinations of hosting and engine integration features made it development-heavy. So the genuinely good news here is that NI is more focused on one tool, and that’s Maschine – a product that has been both more popular and more (frankly) well-liked than Kore was.

And that makes me unambiguously enthusiastic about the choice. Some things simply have to come to an end. The really important thing here is that this redirects development resources into Maschine, and Maschine becomes NI’s flagship host instead of the two competing with one another.

CDM spoke to NI’s Constantin KΓΆhncke about the decision for more detail.

CDM: What does it mean for Maschine that Maschine, and not Kore, is now Native Instruments’ focus? We’ll see greater hosting features, I see; is there anything you can comment on specifically?

NI: Yes, among other features, the hosting features of Maschine will be expanded. As you are aware, the free 1.6 update already brought the hosting of VST/AU plug-ins into Maschine and 1.7 will see more advanced browsing and parameter mapping for NI instruments and effects.

Given that Maschine is now a host to a lot of people, how would you even categorize the application — it seems broader than what was first released?

Maschine is referred to as an integrated groove production system that now combines a pattern-based sequencer, professional sampler, multi-effect unit and VST/AU plug-in host.

It seems like Kore has had a big impact on the other product lines, as
well. Care to comment in terms of what Kore has contributed to other software?

Most prominently, the category browsing and parameter mapping concepts from Kore were integrated in individual NI instruments.

To put it another way, what would you say NI has learned from Kore?

Kore has been a very complex and ambitious undertaking in terms of the architecture, the hardware integration, and the various usability and data management concepts, so learnings in all these regards were applied for current products like Maschine and Kontrol S4.

  • I guess this means I should stop giving N.I. any more $$ for Kore player packs. Luckily I don't have a large investment in Kore. I'd be pissed.

  • synthetic

    First Powercore then Kore: Proprietary hardware DSP seems to be a very bad investment if the only UI is through a computer. Standalone synths and effects will always work, plug-ins will only work until the next OS upgrade. 

  • Peter Kirn

    Kore doesn't do hardware DSP. It's just a controller. It does have a MIDI mode, too. That said, one of my early criticisms of Kore was that you couldn't address all the bi-directional functionality of the controller via a standard protocol, which is I think a challenge not just for NI but the whole industry.

  • Peter Kirn

    I should add, if you have other questions, I'l follow up with NI — these were just a few hasty questions I used to get the conversation going.

  • Kore 2 (or actually the Player) is present in pretty much any tune I do. I totally love the Deep Reconstructions/Transformations/Freq series so I will continue using Kore for the time being. Although I like Maschine a lot I don't see how I can get back what I love about Kore in something like Maschine…

  • I do have a question.

    During the last 15 year I've been writing about music technology in one form or the other and after a while you start to see patterns. My first deja vu was with Steinberg. Rarely have I seen a company with more substantial and (in some cases) groundbreaking ideas. At a time it seemed like with every new release of Cubase new ideas were formed in software and hardware. Huston, Midex, Xphrase, Plex, IPS just to name a few of the most well-known casualties of Steinbergs constant shift of focus. When Steinberg released v4 with their integrated sound and sample browser (can't remember the name) I simply felt it was enough. I just couldn't be bothered to spend hundred of hours to map up my favourite sounds and samples just to see it chopped off in a version or two. My trust for Steinberg regarding commitment is as low as it gets, and I must say NI is slowly but surely getting there as well. While I do understand their focus on Maschine and all technical problems of Kore – I'm finding myself in the position I tried to avoid, where I have a huge database of sounds mapped up and suddenly the future of Kore is no more. Naturally there is nothing wrong with Kore at very this very moment. But after Apple updated its operating system a couple of times there will probably be too many screws loose to make use of it. In other words – my setup is sooner or later screwed.

    My question is this. Are you (NI) aware of that shifts in focus like this damages you as a trustworthy company? Not too long time ago you promoted Kore hard. Now, it's Maschine in the spotlight. While Maschine is a cool piece of hardware, how can I feel any security that you won't dump Maschine in the next two years, just because you invented something ever more clever? Why should I bother map up my sounds and samples in Maschine?

    (Tim – please feel free to edit my question in any way you see fit)

  • Random Chance

    Is the only reason for discontinuing Kore that Maschine is the more popular product or is this also a technical decision because both products have quite some overlap in what they do (and probably in the code base as well). With some of the stuff NI has to offer in its software, I wonder whether it would be such a totally bad idea to license some of the, say, browsing and sound/sample management technology to other companies. I quite like the way they do it and perhaps it could be become the norm so that people using a lot of different software instruments are not forced to learn and re-learn these parts of the interface that are quite important for quickly sketching a composition using presets.

    I'm not a Kore but a Komplete user and I am a little bit worried on what might be on the horizon for other products, seeing as they have already in the past discontinued products such as the Pro-53, B4 and the e-piano whose name escapes me at the moment. But on the whole I still feel that NI as a company has done mostly the right things. 

  • ALTZ

    Just hope NI will not discontinue ABSYNTH which is one of the most powerful softsynth ever.

  • gunboatD

    i wonder how it will work if people try and move their Kore software onto other machines in the future.

    i loved B4, and i'd kept all my disks and install notes, but i re-did my studio and when i went to put B4 back my computer, their online registration server no longer recognized it and now i have to find another good organ sim.  i imagine they'll eventually lock out Kore users as well, if they share the same online registration system.  it's made me gun-shy about purchasing from NI.

  • shim

    @peter kirn: any news from NI about continuing support the free stand alone kore player?

  • dyscode

    Yes, NI has a history in drastically pulling the plug.
    My question ist what will become of the Kore-Soundpacks they already sold?

  • greg

    I have a very hard time feeling sorry for people who spend upwards of 400 bucks on one piece of software.
    If you're gaining that much specialized knowledge, why don't you just learn something free (or at least cheaper) and use that to generalize and adapt once you have a clue?
    I keep asking this earnestly, and people keep reacting really, really negatively.

  • OS

    I was a latecomer to Kore, but I've invested a lot of time and effort into the platform and used it on almost every track I've made in the past couple of years. All I can say is that if I'm not able to convert my custom user sounds to work with Maschine's patch management system and if the many NI soundpacks I've invested in are not made to work with Maschine, which I also own, I will be phasing NI products out of my studio over the next few years.

  • OS

    @Greg – I don't think it has anything to do with getting a clue or learning anything. Kore filled a gap in my work flow and enabled me to quickly and easily manage patches from the several NI instruments that I'd picked up over the preceding decade from a central hub. You also seem to be forgetting the well-built controller which is a handy front end to NI products. I also use it control Ableton racks.

    Maybe you should hold off on sermonizing about a product you don't seem to have much first hand experience with. No one is asking for your sympathy.

  • carlando

    @Greg: It might be that people react “really, really negatively” because your posts have a sanctimonious air about them. You seem to feel that you can judge the best workflow and tools for everyone, but what you’re best at is judging the best workflow and tools for *you*.

    Your Audacity comment regarding the iPad audio editor is one example. We get that there are more capable audio editors on PCs. That’s not a newsflash to anyone that reads CDM. Pushing your viewpoint in a smarmy rather than earnest and constructive way is going to get you more “really, really negative” responses. You can dialog or you can demagogue. Take your pick.

  • I'm a big fan of Native Instruments but this is a really disappointing announcement… and looking at Maschine I'm reluctant to crossover because the price is too high and it really isn't anything like Kore, yet anyways. Kore has been an important sound design tool for me with its modular instrument and effect stacking/parallel processing. Maschine doesn't seem to do any of this, and really is only what its named, a Groove Sequencer. I cant help but compare Maschine with Ableton Live with its Scenes/clips/macro ideas, but i'd much rather use Live with a launchpad any day. And since i am primarily a sound designer and not a drum designer, this is a big fail for me…

  • what NI should have done is brought Maschine's Groove Sequencer and hardware support into Kore (which already has plenty of sequencing abilities on its own already)….anyways…rant over

  • Peter

    I'm wondering, what's going to happen to all the soundpacks I own now? How are these packs going to be integrated moving forward?

  • I own one of the Kore packs (True Strike Tension), which, as I understand it works in Kontakt 4 (which, yes Greg, I recently purchased for a few hundred $'s)…not sure if this is the case with all the Kore packs?
    As for you Greg (against my better judgement because I feel you are baiting us) I have to echo the comments that OS/carlando made – I buy NI software (and have done so since Transformator) because it works for me. I remember the good old days when I lived at home and had all the time in the world to screw with Csound (and I am not knocking Csound here) and maybe I could produce a finished composition that remotely echoed what I wanted to do after several weeks of trying…guess what, those days are over. Sorry to be crass, but time is money…I am able to get closer to my vision for the piece I have envisioned in less time than I ever did all those years ago using only "free tools" (I may have gotten better, but I think that only goes so far in explaining the workflow improvement :-))…and the more efficient the tools I use are the more that my artistic vision can "procreate" within the competing priorities of my life (have any kids, Greg?). As for the disdain that you seem to hold us purchasers of $400+ software (you obviously never recorded in a studio with a pro tools rig :-)) did you ever stop to think that we use "free" software too (which is often covered by this very Blog)? Looking at my desktop I can see Paulstretch and Euclidean MIDI Patterns among all the other $$$ software. Bottom line is that I use what works for me, mate. P.S. Why don't we take up a collection, buy Greg a copy of Reaktor, and see what program he's using in a few months from now. Rant ended πŸ™‚

  • How about NI open-sourcing the drivers and firmware for the Kore 1/2 controllers? That way people in Linux can have a crack at using them, and the high-resolution capabilities could be opened up and maintained by a loyal user base?

    As a keyboard player with a laptop, this is pretty crushing news. Really leaves me (and many others) with a bad taste in my mouth regarding these products.

    @greg Yeah, I really wish I would have done it with all open tools from the start. Hindsight is 20/20.

  • noisetheorem

    Here is what Native Instruments has told Kore users:

    "We are really glad you gave us lots of money, but the code base for the product you bought is to difficult to maintain.  We are scrapping it because its just a lot of work.  Instead, you can give us a lot more money to buy something that does lots of what you dont need, and almost none of what the other product did..but hey we promise its code base is better and will be maintained in the future.   If you pay us for a few more updates, maybe you will get to where you were today with the old product, but you wont know until youve given us, oh, $600 or $700 in future upgrade fees.  No bend the f*ck over, gimp."

    I love Maschine, but Maschine is *not* Kore.  I have already started looking to alternatives, and my trust in NI is shaken.  If Kored code base is so 'unmaintainable' doesnt that bring into questions *all* of their codebases?  They sure as hell aren't going to open it up to peer review, so we will just never know. 

  • Peter Kirn

    FYI, NI is reading the comment thread, so please ask away. You're the customers; you should tell them what you think and what your expectations are.

    @Carl Lofgren: Who's Tim? πŸ˜‰

    On the open source subject, while I'm unaware of any *controller* drivers, the interface drivers are available for Linux:

    My casual understanding was that these drivers were open source, but I don't see code or licenses anywhere, so perhaps they're proprietary ALSA drivers? (Also possible.) It's not exactly relevant to the discussion here, but it'd indicate whether there's some precedent. I can't imagine open sourcing Kore, but it'd be interesting to support the hardware – think of, alternatively, all of this in landfills.

  • I've always dug the Kore concept, and had been intending to buy the full version. In the meantime, I've bought 3 or 4 soundpacks, which are such great products. I love the concept of the soundpacks, so much to explore in them, and so fun to immediately play with and tweak. Was intending to buy Deep Reconstructions and Transformations soon. A shame if the soundpacks won't be purchase-able – a fire-sale would be great.

  • Not to forgive NI (they screwed me over in a similar way when Transfomator was folded into Reaktor), but I have come to expect this from most software vendors and I actually budget for it…who knows how many other "big names" might get bought out and close down product lines before year's end. Apple and Microsoft are not immune from this behaviour either. Hate to condone it, but I think its the cost of doing business in these days of "soft" studios. What NI could do better is end-of-life support for these products (like lifetime activation, etc…of all people Sony has done this well with older versions of Sonic Foundry products such as Acid & Sound Forge) P.S. in case you think hardware vendors are immune from this behaviour, look at Roland…they discontinued the GI-20 Guitar MIDI controller so if my GI-20 goes missing I will be forced to "upgrade" to an all-in-one guitar synth, which is not what I would wish to do.

  • Groc

    This is so disappointing! NI are very unreliable. I don't mean to sound to dramatic but this could potentially be the end of my purchasing from NI. I am just about to start gigging, have intergrated Kore into my live set-up and don't appreciate the fact that something this expensive will have to be replaced so soon. I agree with Carl Lofgren about how they pushed Kore hard not so long ago. My Telecaster wont become void and I don't see why this should. I'm not sure about anyone else but Kore/Komplete for me was a steep learning curve and not so easy as NI calim to intergrate or even upload for that matter. Its buggy and personally caused me endless problems. When I got it integrated though, it was amazing and worth it but now what? Sorry NI, you just lost another customer but then again, you probably don't care. Your customer service would certainly suggest you don't. Don't want to be rude, just honest!

  • Groc

    @Greg – I suppose you expect every musician should build their own instrument. Every artist make their own canvas etc. People are genuinely concerned about this shift in direction. Stop wasting peoples time trying to be clever buddy. It is sad!

  • Well, this bites. I have to agree with Daniel that NI should have some sort of EOL policy so that I can continue using the Kore player, and reinstall if necessary without my install code going bad. Using Machine is not in my workflow, as I am a classically trained linear composer and beat oriented products don't really fit my work style. So please NI (if you are listening). please provide some sort of mechanism so that I can continue to use the products that I have already paid for (and no, I don't need them updated to the latest OS etc. since I generally don't update to the latest OS when I have a stable music production platform).

  • @Peter. Sorry πŸ™‚ Brainmelts are common today.

    Just a few hours ago NI released three vintage compressors for Guitar Rig 4. I don't want to whip up a hysterical atmosphere here saying I won't buy anything more from NI – I'm sure I will.

    But compressors for Guitar Rig? If NI decides to scrap Guitar Rig then these expansion are worthless.

    I think this development is bad bad bad.

  • Peter Kirn

    Yes, I'd agree that the value of add-ons to a platform are directly proportional to the perceived (and eventually, real) life of that platform. We haven't heard an announcement yet from NI about what will happen to the Kore Player add-ons – we know the Player is being discontinued as such, but that doesn't necessarily mean those add-ons are also being end-of-lifed. That announcement hasn't been made yet.

  • Since NI is reading the comments here, i'd like to add some specific questions regarding Maschine possibly inheriting Kore features:
    1) Kore style preset management 2) KoreSounds style of nested instruments/effects(if this was possible then presumably the soundpacks could be migrated?) 3)Kore style mixer hiearchy? maybe make a Maschine mixer view as KORE itself with Maschine specific channels or inputs? where the Kore controller could now be your mix controller 4)preset/snapshot morphing (love this about Kore) 5)Komplete integration. Anything else?

  • Jim

    Recently, NI also began to discount upgrades on their other products. If I remember correctly, the last time they had a summer discount, Komplete was bumped from 6 to 7, barely a year after it was introduced. Now, 7 has been around for about a year, so are they going to have another update. I, like many, felt the last update was rather needless. It seems that Live went through a number of quick updates before the bug-ridden 8 came out. More and more, I am getting rather cautious about spending money on software.

  • Jamie

    @Gunboat You should contact NI about getting a new serial issued for your B4. I thought I wasn't going to able to use my Pro-53 any longer, but NI gave me a serial number that follows the Service Center format.

  • Groc

    I think what is important to is the time factor. People spend a lot of time learning and integrating the products they buy. I think to call it "hysterical" or whatever that someone would decide not to purchase NI products is unfair. Im certainly not hysterical, just disappointed and honestly I feel a bit ripped off! Products need to be reliable and so do the companys that sell them. Things change and you have to roll with the punches but how can a person keep investing in an unrealiable company especially when you are on the road touring etc. and have put the time into your set up etc. For me it just seems soon. Maybe 5 years down the line it would be ok but not this soon. For NI it is the right thing but for its customers I don't think it is. I would ask the question, what is NI if not its customers?

  • I think everyone that says that hardware is so much better than software because hardware "doesn't go obsolete" is full of it.

    Hardware can't be updated, software can. However, nobody's forcing you to upgrade.

    Your setup works fine as it is, doesn't it? Then why would you want to change it?

    The cost of most high-end hardware synthesisers is about the same as a  MacBook Pro plus one or two high end NI synths. If you like your current setup, then KEEP it. Many high end studios I've seen have an old computer, Mac or PC, running old software like a champ and sounding marvellous, patched up as a sex slave to a spanking new one.

    If you like your current setup enough, then freeze your computer.
    You don't need OS 10.7. You don't need Windows 8 or whatever.

    If you really like the sounds you have at the moment and in 5 years time you decide you need Omnisphere X or something and that's not compatible, then, for the same price as a high end hardware synth, buy the latest amazing computer that will be twice as cheap and 10 times faster, run the latest software on it and patch the old one into the new one loaded with a spanking new DAW, through an analog input if you're feeling manly.
    You really need some sense of perspective of what a person can do with a computer nowadays. The easier it gets the more everyone complains…

  • I agree with Carl…I own Guitar Rig 4 as well and buying add-ons for these kind of "closed" platforms make me a little weary (I have to admit that I considered Reflektor, but after demoing it against Reverberate which I already own, I was greatly unimpressed with it)…it would be great to see other vendors supplying "plug-ins" for Guitar Rig – maybe this would give us a little more comfort (like Kontakt…with all the 3rd party sample vendors it might be a bit harder for NI to kill it off). In all honesty, NI offers alot of vouchers, sales, deep discounts etc on their stuff so I can't say that have paid full price for a lot of their stuff (the exception are my staples like Reaktor and (now) Kontakt..but even those were upgrades/crossgrades. I have to admit i'm not a big fan of Komplete (maybe because I'm late to the game)…usually I can get only the stuff that I want/use for about a similar price to an upgrade (i.e what good is free sushi to me if I don't like Sushi :-)).

  • Groc

    @Pabs: A good point but do you think a person can really freeze their computer as it is? Its a good idea and certainly what I thought about doing when I read Peters article but I have a lot of other software on my computer that will require updates so I think Kore will become unavoidably obsolete. Don't assume that people here need a sense of perspective on what a computer can do nowadays though. Some updates are unavoidable to be fair about it. Software has bugs and people are entitled to the updates buddy. Thats the nature of this industries nowadays. On that note so is software becoming regularly obsolete πŸ™‚

  • Jordan

    Lame / noob / knows nothing about anything comment coming up…
    couldn't they make a Reaktor instrument out of it, at least the Kore Player.

  • ersatzgiver

    thanks for bringing this my attention. i was seriously considering purchasing maschine. now that i know ni will euthanize products without warning, i understand it would be unwise for me to center my productions around a piece that could suffer a similar fate 12mo from now.

  • ersatzgiver

    oh yeah and review all the comments from @greg. you will notice a pattern.

  • mp

    Somehow I felt this day was coming… ever since I began using Kore 1… unfortunately, it came a bit sooner than later. I imagine an upcoming OS update will render this software and hardware useless.

    Fwiw, my love for NI over the last several years has been waning… this doesn't help things.

  • jakub

    Two questions to NI:
    1) Will free Kore Player be updated as well? I think it should because people invested some money to sound packs…
    2) Would it be possible to use KORE soundpacks  with other NI players? I mean, can I use "Kontakt retro machines" kore pack on Kontakt player? 

  • Paolo

    I am a very heavy NI user with my Komplete, Kore and now Maschine arsenal. I am really disappointed with Kore's dump. 
    Like someone else said before, to me the most useful task of Kore is the fact that it works as a hub for all my instruments, and it makes things easier.
    Lately, NI went the opposite direction. There are a few choices that mine workflow: I don't get the reason why you neet to open Guitar Rig in order to use Mouth, Finger and now Classic Compressors. It's a big workflow killer. (and cpu killer).
    Maschine is a great product, but not for everyone and I mainly use as a daw within a daw with ableton Live for live gigs. And this shuold be. I don't see it as a replacement of Kore. You can integrate the browsing engine, and this is cool, but it would be once again mediated. The secret is one thing, one task. I think they're missing the point. It's all about workflow.

  • Paolo

    Uh, not to mention Razor which you can only play by opening Reaktor

  • RichardL

    Obsolescence! Who needs it?

    This is a headache. But it seems like they have a decent end-of-life plan. They get some credit for that.

    But it doesn't help NI's credibility. KORE is dead, long live MASCHINE. No really. Trust us. 

    I guess once again the take-away is: proprietary => obsolescent on the vendor's clock.

  • Kore Killa

    Why can't they just put in their planned updates for Kore and leave it at that. Did they really have to pull the kore player and soundpacks? I personally think they should make a kore3 four channel mixer audio I/O midi controller. Lots of knobs, some faders, and a bunch of info screens… hah, yea right…

  • Paolo

    I personally think that killing Kore for a software drum machine is a mistake

  • stk

    Shame.. I never got around to purchasing Kore, but was planning on.

    Anyone know a comparable product?

    (No, as much as NI would like to sell it as such, Maschine is far from a replacement).

  • I was really sad to see Hartmann go out of business, I have the Neuron VS and they never released an Intel Mac universal binary update, so if I want to use it, I have to have a PC (which I currently don't), but I know if I really want to, I can get it running on a PC.  I was also a bit sad when TC discontinued the Powercore, I had actually just bought a PCI-E to replace my PCI and again use it on my MacPro.  I love Kore, particularly the snapshot morphing, but I know I will be able to keep using it for maybe two years or more, I am sure I can keep a system with Kore running as long as needed.

  • This is gravely dissapointing to me, especially in regards to the 'Kore' packs, specifically deep reconstructions, and the other 'deep' packs, which utilize the FX engines in various NI products.. and which I use on a regular basis. Ok, we know that the sample based packs will likely continue to work w/ Kontakt.. But what of these bundles that use FX from everywhere in the NI arsenal?

    Again.. REALLY disapointed in NI. I don't want to lose these FX packs. Use them all the time. LOVE them. I honestly couldnt care less about the controller, Just find a way for me to continue using these items, and you'll keep my business. if not, you'll be losing a (formerly) loyal fan and user.

  • Chris

    @Greg people are reacting negatively because what you're saying is just spiteful for no other reason than "you didn't buy xxxxxx and commit a lot of effort into mastering it." It would be ALMOST as bad as learning an instrument and then it just doesn't exist anymore. What you pay for it is really moot.

    This IS bullshit. I have Maschine. I bought it when it came out. I've bought every Komplete upgrade since 5, and I hardly see how Maschine is a crossgrade for Kore. Maschine is specificially for people who want to work in a drum machine/MPCesque environment. Kore was a synth librarian. Apples and oranges. NI has had TERRIBLE support over the past few years, culminating in the utter broken state of NI Service Center with the last update, a broken Kore 2 Controller driver that had to be hacked into place to work, and the discontinuation of SEVERAL products. I'm really upset by this. NI made great products just to sabotage themselves for no good reason. This is stupid. NI is fucked, and I'll be looking elsewhere in the future while NI decides if they are chasing Ableton, Reason, Akai, and every soft synth and VST plugin maker on the market. It's well understood they have no intention of standing behind their products.

  • Chris

    Seriously… how many products has NI discontinued in just the past 5-6 years? There have to be at least 2 dozen Kore Soundpacks alone, many of which were masterfully crafted by some amazing sound designers. Acoustic Refractions? Deep Freq/Transformations/Reconstructions? I feel quite ripped off. I bet every Refill ever released for Reason still works. NI REALLY needs to answer for this. They can't pull this shit and not expect fallout. It's the kind of thing to make me question what'll happen with Maschine as well. I guess Machine expansions can go the way of Akoustik and all the SoundPacks will be resold as Maschine expansions. This goes way beyond double dipping.

  • Bendish

    I find it odd that we have to point out that NI are reading this. Where else would they be reading? If they don't read the main forums online they're stupid.
    I liked kore and thought it had much potential. Seems like it only just got going. Shame. 

  • Juno

    Stop feeding the troll.

  • mckenic

    Agreed Bendish!

    If NI are reading here I have three questions for them.

    1. Will there be any dialogue with their customers on the NI support forum – http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthrea
    Information and answers have been slow coming.

    2. Do you understand how many users, many long, long time users are disappointed and frustrated – not by your decision but by the way this was dealt with? Many of us dont trust you now and we dont believe you any more.

    And finally, do you even care?

  • I'm not thrilled about this as a KORE 2 controller user. I can see the validity of why they have made the shift in terms of the development time to make KORE presets with their soundpacks and instruments. However, as Paolo has aptly put it Maschine is not a replacement for KORE. I think the decision is purely a numbers decision. KORE was very expensive to maintain for them. I am sure sales have been very flat for the unit. Focusing the customers attention towards Maschine is a marketing move and they know with the broad acceptance of it within the industry that many people will swallow the argument.
    I don't think NI can be persuaded to continue to support KORE.
    I really like a lot of NI stuff and have bought into their ecosystem. I use pretty much all of their synths and of course Reaktor but to kill off KORE is, in a way invalidating, their approach to having us buy into their ecosystem. Really unfortunate the more I think about it.

  • Greg, don't make me come in there and smack the ugly off you.Some people.

  • This is not good news. Would it really be that difficult to keep it compatible with whatever future OS is around? We don't need new features, just keep it working as it is. I've invested a lot of $$ in Kore and the soundpacks. I really hope it will be compatible, at the very least, with Mac OS 10.7.

    One of the main reasons I bought Kore was the promise of a higher control resolution than midi. It really does work and it makes a huge difference in the overall sound and performance experience. Maschine quite obviously does not have that feature. NI, if you are really going to throw out KORE, could you please (please) bring that higher control resolution to Maschine?

    I think NI is making a huge mistake giving up on KORE. It really is (was) like no other instrument around. I know I'm going to keep using it as long as NI lets me.

  • Bendish

    I think it's a shame that a company is so evidently focussing on making cash rather than improving existing products. NI's marketing and branding is intense. This should definitely throw some red flags up. Ultimately it probably comes down to the popularity of the product. If nobody buys it, then they don't continue it. I think they should integrate the applications they have already established. Kore was a good way of doing this. Bring them together. Streamline preset management. Make UIs more accessible and clear. Reduce the negative effect that the design has on the creative process. Kore was the first step in bridging the gap between hardware and software. Surely the development of a product like this deserves some commitment greater than we have just seen. If it's about $ then everything else is irrelevant.

  • nowaysj

    Have been a Komplete user since 5, and just purchased Maschine 2 weeks ago. Never got into Kore, never really understood the need for it at all.

    But Maschine, for me, is a bolt of lightning, probably the best music related purchase I've ever made (along with Fruity Loops in 1999 for $99… lifetime free updates πŸ˜‰ ).

    I think I'm NI's demographic here. I think NI fully understands now the potential of Maschine. I look forward to seeing what it will become, as it is likely to become the centerpiece of my beat making and song writing.

    Please NI, better pads in the next controller. Please! These hurt pretty badly after a couple of hours of use.

    Think you're playing Russian Roulette though, purchasing closed plugins from NI, like GR's new compressors. I'll never buy anything like that from them, especially for those prices. That's just madness.

    In the article above, it is stated that Maschine will sell for US$449 for the rest of the year. Is there any confirmation of this figure?

  • mick

    this is sickening…i've spent a fortune of my hard earned money on kore 1 -> 2 + 15 sound packs.. what now???
    oh sorry we cant migrate your sound packsto the kore replacement!!! why not?? if maschine is replacing kore then it shouldnt be a big deal to migrate the sound packs… 
    as much as i've loved this direction NI have taken if they dont migrate those sound packs over i'm never buying another pack again…

  • I don't think anyone argues that Maschine hasn't potential. It does, and although I'm not madly in love with it – I am very curious about the future. The developing team sure seem to have no shortage of ideas.

    But as said a couple of times already. Kore is not Maschine.

    As Andrew wrote, I'm also sure that the sales have been weak/flat for Kore – but how surprising is that? Kore 2 was released four years ago and the last Kore soundpack may 2010. It's not really like they've tried hard to take the platform forward.

    Surely NI is reading. But are they replying? Not here anyway.

  • Martin

    Seems to me that NI started as a company run by adventurous programmer-musicians that sold products so as to make a living doing what they were passionate about. There are many companies like this still about, you know who they are, and if you are anything like me you feel that you are contributing to building something when you give them money, and you try to convince friends and colleagues to buy their stuff and not use the cracks. There are many other companies that are run by business people aiming to maximise profit via whatever it takes. They may employ passionate programmers who are wonderful human beings but that is how they operate. These companies, if you are anything like me, you attempt to give them as little money as possible and when you see your friends and colleagues using the cracks, you are probably less enthusiastic about telling them not to. NI morphed into such a company a while ago. I bought every Komplete around, Kore 1, Kore 2, you name it … Kore development was a disaster from the word go they regularly lied about compatibility, about drivers about everything …  A lot of people like me realised around that time where they were going and came to the obvious conclusions. Many people have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours cataloguing theit sounds, building their whole setup aroind this thing. Why ? Because they are idiots ? No, because THAT IS WHAT KORE IS FOR – it was made and marketed to do exactly this. You cant compare it to an EQ plugin that you can replace with another.

    So, knowing that they have built this thing up to be a central part of peoples setups, and that for years the damn thing didnt work properly despite paid updates – now, when it is finally approaching maturity – they throw it away like an old smelly sock.
    I'm sorry but these people are just not worthy of respect and they will get none from me. They pulled the rug from under people one time too many and I'm definitively finished
    With them under thiscurrent management.

    If you have put any real time into Reaktor programming, and I know people who have put YEARS of their lives into developing for Reaktor, then be scared. Be VERY scared.

  • Chris

    Miguel nailed it. It's one thing to stop selling it, however, when you've pitched it as a platform and sold countless SoundPacks, it's not OK to stop supporting it. The product lifespan has got to be somewhere around 6 years and it WAS popular. I can't even imagine after Komplete 7's total commitment to Koresounds, that it wasn't extremely popular. It has only been out for a little over a year now, hasn't it? That's a hell of a change in direction from integrating every single product they make into Kore a year ago.

  • synths come and go. i remember when the Korg M1 was killed off. I'm sure people felt the same way when Arps/Moogs/Oberheims dissapeared off shelfs. i understand people investing a lot of money and then seeing their beloved product go away but musicians seem to not understand how business works. NI is a business and to stay in business they need to sell products that make profit. i never bought into Kore but i like Reaktor so the question is, can Kore be liberated? will the vast user base be allowed to carry on with Kore as an open source product? i know plenty of people out there who have win98 machines or win98/ME partitions just to run ProTools Free or have Logic 4.X/5.x running with their older Audio Cards not supported by new OS's. Creamware synth cards are also still used by a lot of people even though there is no more support on newer OS's. the foucs should be to make Kore Open Source. let the hacking begin.

  • Audiosynth

    I own Kore 1 and think its been great. NI really ought to make the software available for others to continue support at least.

    I'm extremely disappointed that they dump products so much.

    I have Maschine and now wonder what will its life expectancy be? Their offer of $450 usd to Kore owners is weak. I paid that anyway.

    This is not a good business model for NI to pursue..

  • Groc

    I've commented enough here but I would like to say one final thing. I think it is great to see so many people being honest about what NI are doing here. To be blunt about it, they have basically ripped a lot of people off and there is not much excuse for it other than their own gain. They need to be more accountable for that and owe a lot of people an apology! It is Komplete B.S.

  • In hindsight they got off to the wrong start of the confusion with the controller, what it does, what Kore does without the controller, what you get for free or pay for, etc. Look at the second response up top and Peter having to clarify at this point. The idea of having some sort of ready to go software with interface performance thing is a generally good idea. As for me, I think saving something set up in Live for a performance does the trick. Kore seemed brand limiting… but then again maybe I still don't quite understand it.

  • Andrew Stone

    Now that I have had some time to mull this over after receiving this news, I think NI probably realizes they are dealing a blow to their most coveted part of their user base: the ones that have bought into the NI ecosystem.

    In order to have committed to KORE in buying their hardware you have to be a committed NI user. In marketing terms you are prime customer that they want to take care of. In the past, NI has been good to it's committed customers particularly with Komplete, at least some of the upgrades. If you bought into Komplete, NI would take care of you with their updates and give you good return on your investment over time. Slowly over the past few years their approach has changed. We've all seen it moving to soundpacks so they can move through more products, have higher turnover, shorter product development and cheaper product development. All is generally good if they take care of their loyal customer base who feel to be part of the NI family, just like Apple fanbois are of Apple and return to the trough quite frequently to buy some validation.

    What has happened here with NI is a severing of that with their loyal customers who bought into the KORE ecosystem. The offer to these customers should have been tailored more toward an offer that sound designers would want rather than a controller that maybe would be of serious interest to say 30 to 40% of the KORE users… maybe.

    NI's offer, as I have thought about it this morning, should be something like a voucher for $600 worth of NI software (incl. update packages) or $250 off any piece of hardware NI has in their catalogue. Why so rich on the software offer? I presume that NI pays out their sound designers rather than going for a royalty based repayment structure so the cost to NI would be near zero (possibly lost revenue). This would cover off the cost of the controller and give a SMALL amount of lipservice towards the time flushed down the toilet used to learn KORE and trusting NI to support it for a reasonable length of time.

    I hope NI thought through the idea of porting NI to iPAD. I think this would have been a logical move and would have brought in a lot of people. The industry is in need of a hyper X-Y controller to aid in sound design. KORE seemed to be the solution but now obviously not.

    If they are truly listening, as Peter Kirn says, and speak to their truly loyal customer base — US — with a meaningful offer of compensation as I have suggested above.

    Great products NI but you have not handled this one well. Maybe you can do a "reload" and save some face and potential revenue in the future.

  • Andrew Stone

    I meant to say "porting KORE to iPAD"

  • OS

    I've commented already upthread and think the high points of how this negatively affects loyal users have been covered pretty well. In support of Andrew Stone's comment above I'd like to point out that it would be hard to overstate the sales and marketing weight NI has put behind these Kore Soundpacks over the past couple of years.

    They released these things regularly and threw around vouchers for discounts fairly liberally. That's all good because the quality of the content was excellent for the price for the most part, and many of us invested in a few or many or these things. Like some of the rest of you, I return to the FX editions quite regularly and am still exploring them. Not to mention the more sample-heavy products, of which I own a couple.

    The decision to kill the platform that supports this extensive add-on library shows incredibly poor planning and/or disregard for those of us who have effectively been supporting Kore on a subscription basis for the past few years.

    I was an early adopter of Maschine and have been please with the way that the product has developed, but if NI can't figure out a way to port some of the Kore content to that platform or offer a meaningful incentive to offset the hassle and expense we've incurred, I can promise you that every banner ad and email about the Maschine expansions packs they've started to offer are going to look a lot like an upraised middle finger wearing a gangster gold dollar sign ring to Kore customers.

  • 5meohd

    well NI, can you see you've made them all very un-satisfied? it appears that offering them a significant discount on the migration to Maschine when the first update is available with "kore content/feature" support is your only viable option. I have been really happy with my NI purchases… except the fact that bought TWO dud Maschines in a row… third try is the charm! So maybe you've dropped Kore to work on the hardware components inside the controller? hmm.. 

  • loydb

    Given how my generation 1 Kore hardware was neglected by them, it doesn't surprise me in the least they're screwing everyone now. Between their discontinuing great products from my 'Komplete' bundles (B4, Vocoder, etc.), I'm done with NI. I don't want a Maschine.

    And as for the allegation that NI is reading these thread comments — since they can't be bothered to read their own forums, I find it hard to believe that they care about this one.

    On the off chance that they are — screw you NI. I've given you literally thousands of dollars. Never again.

  • Too ambitious to be sustainable. Sad day. I use my Kore controller all the time with my BooTweak for Kontakt project, as I scripted it to work specifically with a Kore controller. Free/Donationware w/ 720 original drum samples, here's a video of Kore + Kontakt working together: http://youtu.be/gr16Sr07EeA

  • Martin

    To those saying : doesnt matter, i dont use it but its like a synth that is discontinued, no big deal. You simply dont understand, probably because you dont use it.

    To those saying: doesnt matter, shit get diecontinued all the time, just keep a system running with this if you like it. You apparently do not understand what Kore is. it is not a VSL or EW bank that can reside on anthor computer, the whole idea of the thing is that it is at the centre of what you do, it is supposed to be how you pull up, and realtime play with, all the sounds from all your synths ( of course it never actually became this, except if you only use NI stuff, but this is how it was marketed and this is how people were trying to use it)

    For the other 80%, who see it for what it is, I would just say, please, don't just move to using the cracks, take the money that you gave to NI before and use it to encourage
    honest companies who support their products and their customers. There are many of them out there. As for NI, I imagine that people will do what they feel is appropriate.

    IMHO the fact that Reaktor is controlled by the people who now run what this company has become is the single most depressing thing in music technology today. 

  • ive said all I need to on the official forum. I wish there was a way to see how many posters here are NOT forum members already talking there. More importantly, this article & open comments area is good to see & I hope there are more, even higher profile, such things very soon.

  • Martin

    Yo Jace
    I dont know. I haven't posted over there about this or anything else for a couple of years … I stopped posting there when it became clear that the NI moderators were removing the unfavourable posts. They are apparently doing this less now. I just looked at the Kore forum over there, which is still up for the moment, looks like that people aren't too happy there either.

  • iain_m

    It's worth noting that although at first glance the two maintenance updates sound thoughtful, it's not at all clear (from NI's official comments on their forum) whether these will include any bug fixes.
    So for example, 64-bit compatibility and the latest plug-in engines won't mean much to Pro Tools users, because Kore causes system lock-ups when used in Pro Tools. This bug has been known for years and is exactly the kind of thing that until the abrupt discontinuation, one would have reasonably expected to be fixed in an update.

  • loyalkoreuser

    Please take a look at the official Kore forums as well as the Facebook group. Lots of discontent over this decision and registered owners were not (and still haven't been) officially made aware of this decision. Total bullshit.



  • loyalkoreuser

    Join the facebook group so we can show some numbers outside of the official forum.

  • Peter, what will be the fate of kore.createdigitalmusic.com? Additionally, how about featuring reviews of somewhat similar possible replacement softwares? Brainspawn Forte 2, VSTHost, Usine, Ableton Live, Mainstage, etc?

  • Peter Kirn

    @urbster1: kore.createdigitalmusic.com isn't going anywhere. Of course, we always envisioned it as potentially just a limited-time thing, and it had concluded some time ago. (And it still features useful stuff for anyone who uses a "legacy" Kore system, as well as things that are relevant beyond Kore.)

    The host question? Great, great suggestion … and something I've intended to have us do and just have never gotten around to. As I'm sure you're aware, those all take radically different approaches to the problem. I guess the main category is "host you can play live," whether that means live in-studio or live onstage.

  • Andrew Stone

    Just waded through the NI forum on the matter. Save some time… Here is the one post from an NI spokesperson responding to the ire of the KORE 2 users:


  • Peter Kirn

    I've requested feedback from NI for CDM, too, and encapsulated what I heard as the main issues. I think it was worth gauging thoughts here, too, even if it's a bit redundant with the forums.

  • apoclypse

    SIgh. People are so damn melodramatic. As far as I know NI isn't actively going to your computer and removing the software. It will still work. If you bought soundpacks, they will still work. They are even giving you 64-bit support before phasing out the product. However you can't force the company to keep pouring cash into a product they are not making money off of. As a company they are legally obligated to make a profit (for their shareholders). Kore had issues from day one. It was designed badly. The integrated synth engines for example was the biggest mistake NI made. They you couldn't update Kore without having updated all of their other synths first, making updates slow and expensive to maintain. Those who want NI to keep supporting the product don't understand that updating Kore means updating the synth engines as well. That would hold back NI's other products (and has in the past).

  • OS

    @apoclypse – No one is begrudging NI the right to make a living, but it isn't melodramatic to take a vendor to task for handling a transition badly and using misleading language to describe their actions. In fact, it is incumbent upon me as an engaged customer to let NI know what they are doing and saying wrong. ie "Maschine picks up right where Kore left off" which is utter nonsense. Among the many reasons that statement is not true is the fact that none of the Kore add on content is transferrable to the new platform. I'm well aware of the technical issues involved, but the very fact that the Kore soundpacks are so intertwined with the larger instrument products whose future update paths will cause them to become unusable, exhibits a notable lack or foresight or downright disregard for loyal customers.
    I also find it a bit disrespectful that I wasn't notified of this by the company. Instead yesterday I got some spam from them trying to sell me vintage compressor plugins for Guitar Rig. Now why the fuck at this point would I start investing in yet another proprietary NI FX host?

  • carlando

    Didn’t NI just buy all of their shares back so that they could be a privately owned company?

  • nk:e

    I own Maschine and Kore and as someone said, they are completely different. Kore's approach to managing my plugins, their routing, it's ability to "simplify the complexity" within a comprehensive system for storing, managing, and maintaining my sounds and their variants was liberating. The potential for sound design was / is incredible. And NI did encourage to build their rigs around it, so many did! Now? POOF. They had just dug themselves out of some deep holes from a few years back I thought. Ah well.  Machine is cool. It ain't Kore. Stop trying to spin me like I'm stupid.

  • nk:e

    Since it's officially discontinued BEFORE OSX 10.7, I wonder if this means we  mac folk are SOL in a month if there's a problem. The announcement seems rushed.

  • OS

    @carlando – yes. NI is a private company as of recently

  • the community interaction NI guy stated that OSX Lion will be supported but didn't indicate details such as whether that was just the Kore 2 software plug-in/host or if it includes the required 64-bit drivers for the Kore controller hardware units. my understanding is that Lion defaults to 64-bit kernel mode on machines that support it (on which Snow Leopard currently defaults to 32-bit kernel mode).

  • shim

    @NI : hear that? it's the sound of the unemployment line.

  • heinrichz

    If they can integrate some of the morphing and mixing/routing functions of Kore into Maschine as well..then good riddance.  This ole Kore hardware controller needed to be updated anyway..but there was no point in doing that since we do have Maschine now. Meanwhile it is also important to simplify that product line and unify the sound engines.
    With this move NI is doing all of that..

  • heinrichz

    just relax people..you can still use you kore packs in the future.

  • OS

    No, heinrichz. That's the point. Kore soundpacks can't be used outside of Kore as far as we've been told. And, again, please stop perpetuating the fallacy that everything that can be done in Kore can be done in Maschine. Not even close. If we ever see the programming functionality of Kore added to Maschine, it will be ages before they get it implemented.

    And what's wrong with the Kore controller? I use it more than any other controller I have, including Maschine. As I've said before, the Maschine device is great, but it's a more cumbersome alternative to Kore when you aren't using the pad grid.

  • Johbremat

    For those of us that got it recently we've up the creek.  Missed out on picking up the Kore soundpacks.

    At the very least, praying they at have/will develop a separate driver to allow the use of the Kore controllers as standalone MIDI devices for use elsewhere, rather than having to have Kore 2.1 installed.

  • mckenic

    I dont know if I feel lucky to not have invested in a lot of soundpacks – or screwed because I cant get them now…

    @heinrichz – Im glad your set-up works for you. You understand of course your system is not my way of doing things? My system will work fine as of today – I cant expand it with additional content, Im stuck with the few packs I have (and love) and as soon as my DAW or OS decides, it will never work again.

    I sincerely hope Maschine users are paying very, very close attention – the golden egg you are using now (as it is the future and will be integral to NI) is the exact one they are killing for us. Just remember, Kore users were promised the same commitment you are being told you are getting.

    Lastly, were the SoundPacks part of the Summer Blowout this year? Shortest blowout ever – and what a blowout!

  • Karl Popper

    If NI will add full MIDI CC capability to Maschine (only supports AT, MOD and PITCH now) they can do whatever they want. J/K. I feel bad for those of you who got screwed. I really love Maschine so I guess you could say I have 'schadenfruede'.

  • substrain

    As a user of both Maschine and Kore 2, I can understand this decision and NI should be given credit for further maintaining Kore onto 64bit. 

    As for Maschine, it represents for me the most forward thinking tool for music production I have ever experienced. It is much more than a "drum machine". It already does some of what Kore does in it's own way such as the ability to create and save your own sounds by stacking plugins, browsing category tagged sounds from the hardware which also has high resolution knobs like Kore…etc. But nothing really comes close to Maschine when it comes to completely eliminating the mouse from the workflow. It's a vast improvement on the Kore controller in that aspect. So, unlike some of the naysayers here, I feel very confident about the assurances NI has made recently about the future of Maschine and the direction it's going in. It looks to have a very bright future ahead.

  • OS

    @substrain – I haven't seen many people saying that Maschine isn't a good product. Personally, I love it, but it does lack key features that Kore has. The painful part of this debacle to me is that NI is not making a meaningful effort to transition Kore users onto the Maschine platform in terms of preserving their work and time investment by offering the least amount of disruption to our workflow. $150 crossgrade discount for Maschine? That's pretty weak. I have many hundreds of patches, sounds and projects ranging from entire performance setups contained within Kore, to single instances of Kore as an instrument or effect on a track in my DAW, and everything in between. Some people have thousands of custom Kore patches based on the Komplete family of instruments. All that work is now just a ticking timebomb waiting to ruined by an unavoidable update of something that will break Kore after the last update. The main issue for me is that NI's strategy is to force me to suddenly stop doing exactly what they've been encouraging me to do over the past few years, and move wholesale to a new proprietary format which they will also pull the plug on. It's a bad pattern to perpetuate. You and I are lucky in that we also own Maschine, which eases the transition somewhat, but we are in the minority of Kore users.

  • jon doe

    lifes a bitch.. boo hoo. 

  • I cannot emphasize enough how much I HATE Native Instruments for abandoning products like Pro-53 or B-4 and now even KORE. Musicians should not even begin to rely on products that will eventually be dropped by the developer . As a producer and performer I need reliable instruments. This NI-habit is like taking away my favourite guitar without any chance of replacement. Native Instruments? Oh, no! I am so gone!

  • Discontinuing the free player is ridiculous. Just because NI doesn't see KORE in their future, doesn't mean current (and future) users cannot continue to enjoy the software and content that currently exists. They should leave it "as is", unsupported but functional.

  • Wellllll–Free Kore 2 Player is still available. Hope it stays that way.

  • Chris

    I love how people say things like "life's a bitch" when you know that you could take something away from those people to get them bitching about life just as much as anyone else. It's easy not to care when you don't care.

  • @substrain: could you point me in the direction of a mention of Kore-like high-resolution knobs on Maschine? I only see a vague mention of high-resolution knobs in the 1.6 press release, but can't seem to find any mention in any of the Maschine manuals. In the Kore manuals, they make a point of saying they have higher-than-midi resolution, but no such claim in the Maschine manuals. I hope my skepticism is wrong!

  • I understand the ire of Kore users, and while I'm not a Kore user I am an NI customer and Komplete user so wanted to add:

    To those saying that Kore soundpacks can't be used without Kore, I've bought several Kore soundpacks and used the presets in their respective application(s) within Komplete. Just a thought on how to mitigate the loss of anything you can't live without…

  • Robin parry

    I really hope Maschine now dosnt become bloated with upgradeitus!
    It's a sampling gearbox that needs a linear track mode, not a do anything box

  • Jay

    Im looking into M-audio AXIOM to get some of the tactile and preset patch browsing aspects to use absynth with. ALso my Kore would crash when using the kore patches. It was buggy but I liked it as much as my Kurzweil and SCSI hardware that was also unreliable and buggy, goofy and still working after 20 years! although I was considering buying machine I wont be buying machine now or N.I hardware but Im just going to buy the M-audio gear that looks pretty slick. Will Guitar Rig Kontroller also be ditched to make the hip hop beat makers happy?

  • substrain

    "The knobs on the Maschine controller use the same encoders as those on the Kore controller, and the effective parameter resolution is actually even higher in Maschine."

  • Long time reader, first time poster. This fact should indicate my sadness level and total dismay at NI.

    Being of little funds, the free Kore Player suited me perfectly. Over time, I could (and did) build up my Soundpack library, of which I own 6. The most recent purchase being 2 weeks ago. Imagine buying something and within a week, being told it’s no longer on the roadmap, its future beyond this year is shaky.

    As a musician, the music I collaborate on is not based on beats or melody (though present), but is focused on sound and the atmosphere it creates. With over 100 projects completely reliant on NI Kore “sounds” for their soul and appeal, I am now very disheartened I used my limited funds on this NI product alone.

    The double whammy (and insult) is – Being a product owner I receive communications/promotions from NI all the time, just last week they were spruiking new compressors via email, but nothing re “critical news” for products already purchased. I had to read about it here first. I am flummoxed!

    I still have emails dated April/May, where NI are spruiking Kore and the many benefits of the integrated sound engines, the production-ready sounds and effects, etc. I am so sad I bought into this, and will be recommending others to move on from NI.

  • urbster1

    Not sure if it's been mentioned yet or not but I've realized that one of the last words from NI was that Kore was "far from dead" before this. http://www.plughugger.com/4/post/2011/06/native-i

  • @urbster1: Actually, ew, the person who asserted that 'Kore is far from being dead' as mentioned in the blog you linked to was never an NI employee (just a NI user/forum moderator) and was just making a personal assumption. So I would hardly call that "words from NI".

    Anyway, latest from NI on the Koresound format:
    "Individual instruments that use the KSD format now (Absynth, FM8, Guitar Rig, Massive) will continue to load KSD patches in the future, even after they change to another primary sound file format."

  • I feel sorry for those who have invested money and time into this product.

  • ~C

    3rd times the charm for me.  I may continue updating Komplete but there are other companies out there (Spectrasonics to name one) that have treated their user-base with a bed side manner that would put Patch Adams to shame.  

    It will be a long time until I trust NI again.  Money's hard to make in this industry currently and my funds have helped spur on a company that obviously has less scruples than I do.  

    If they had come out with an update allowing the Kore controllers to be auto mapped to their other instruments or anything (aside from a meager discount on Maschine) that showed me they had a heart-felt frustration with this decision, I might have a different heart as well.  


  • Positve

    It's easy to be concerned but the reality of it is people are missing the real point.
    Maschine maps to KORE and has more control so integrating the KORE functions into Maschine will yield a much better product.
    Those of us that have both Maschine and KORE already understand or see the advantages of the direction.
    Running KORE inside of Maschine as a VI is pretty nice but being able to do that without using a plug slot will be nice.

  • Michael Pearson

    Kore 1 scared me off buying any future NI hardware.

    Their software is great, but finding drivers for Kore 1 for Windows 7 is a real PITA. 

  • As a recent Kore 2 & Komplete user I love how it makes it easy to create interesting sounds without a degree in synthesis and it's browsing capabilities. Several issues stand out for me. From a NI customer point of view I was considering maschine but the sudden nature of the Kore announcement coupled with far from the greatest support leaves a certain amount of distrust for the NI brand. From an amateur music maker point of view, well if I can still use the product and it gets 64bit support great. From a gear-head point of view I'm sure there will be some other spangly bit of equipment from some other manufacturer around the corner to get me salivating and forget about Kore. From a creative point of view if Kore goes kaput then I'll have to find another way to work which is both annoying and exciting. At the end of the day products become redundant creativity doesn't. I certainly think NI could have handled this situation better but I couldn't say I wouldn't ever use them again, who knows what sparkly, knob-filled, sonic weapons are around the corner.

  • bammbamm

    I sold a perfectly good Korg Radius and MS2K to become a Kore/NI synth user and now this!
    I want my #$&!ing money back !!!
    D@&% IT !!!

  • hitime

    I have use Kore 2 for about 3 years to compose music for the videos I make. It has been the centre of my suite driven through various versions of Sonar producer. When I upgraded to X1 at the beginning of the year, I (foolishly) did  a series of NI updates at the same time. The combination destabilised my system completely. Kore crashed whilst trying to load, asking me to send the crash log to NI. I did this but got no more than a acknowledgement of receipt for more than 6 weeks. In the interim, after several days of frustrating experimentation I solved the problem, which was to do with plugins. 

    I was deeply concerned about the lack of support from NI which had left me dead in the water.

    More recently, I have had another problem when Kontact 4 was not even seen by Kore 2 standalone. Now I felt it was time to reduce my reliance on NI products, feeling that service would not be forthcoming. After several attempts to re-install Kore to sort the problem failed , I have left it unistalled. I find that most of what I want from Kore can be got via the knobs on my PCR800 keyboard which seems well integrated with Kontakt.

    With this experience, I was not surprised to see support withdrawn from Kore. Will crossgrade to Maschine ? Hmmmmmm!!

  • Ricci

    yup! Dont think ill be buying any else from this company! and the sale for current kore users and 3 free kore packs!? well that didnt work when i went to buy! just didnt work when i put in my vouchers! Buggy, just like there updates process!

  • Dan

    NI is failing to realize that some of us program our music and rarely use maschine… while my maschine is great I only use it for my drums and firing samples in logic…..the software for maschine has limited control and to be honest, is a half assed looping software and it doesnt even properly interface with logic… not having access to Kore, or as a planned to buy, deep freq, is the worst.  I have lost faith in NI… what are they doing?

  • er

    Native Instruments are the chicken-with-its-head-cut-off of the audio industry.
    One day the abandon Reaktor, then five years later, they decide to update it. One day they decide to centralize all their efforts into a lame software-hardware combo called Kore, then years later, they abandon it. NI executives have no clue what they are doing.. in the meanwhile other software and hardware compannies like Ableton and novation are eating their lunch. Expect some more copycat lameness from the brillant minds at NI