livebeta

It’s nice to get what you ask for. More than any recent release I can recall, Ableton Live 9.2 feels like it’s ticking off a task list of user requests. The software enters (a very stable, in my experience) public beta this week. There’s nothing earth-shaking, but I know CDM has enough Ableton users that this will matter.

To get there, though, be forewarned: Ableton is dropping support for some older Mac and Windows operating systems. (10.6 and earlier / Vista and earlier, respectively.)

If you make the cut, though, you’ll likely find some welcome changes in this free update for Live 9. See if these complaints sound familiar to you – as now they get addressed:

You want to warp techno and house without headaches. This one was especially maddening: you drop a completely regular, four on the floor, 125 bpm track into Live, and get … a whole bunch of complicated warp markers and tempo changes? Uh, that’s note right. Ableton says they’ve improved Auto-Warp and downbeat detection to better recognize fixed tempos. No more “four scattered on the walls, ceiling, and your face.” Back on the floor. Good.

You wish warped tracks sounded better. Ableton promises improved Complex and Complex Pro warp modes with “punchier transients, even at extreme settings.” So far, the difference is subtle, but sounds good – think clearer rendition of sharp, percussive sounds.

You want better latency compensation. The big development here, and one we’ve waited for, is that automation is fully latency-compensated. Previously, adding automation could through off latency compensation for devices. Also, Ableton says they’ve improved latency performance with Max for Live and third-party plug-ins.

Some more details on the latency compensation improvement, from Ableton: “Latency-compensated automation refers to applying delay compensation to automation events. Previously, clip contents were compensated but automation breakpoints were not. This meant that in Sets with latency-inducing plug-ins, automation might occur before the corresponding events in clips. This doesn’t happen anymore.”

You play an instrument, and forgot a tuner. There’s now a Tuner built-in. Yep, I think we had a whole article about this, so thanks!

You want to play pads on your whole Push, not a little corner of it. Here’s the thing: Ableton’s Push hardware isn’t an MPC. So a 16-pad grid is a small corner of the controller. In Push’s Drum Rack mode, that allows the use of a step sequencer with the extra pads. But maybe you’d prefer to wail away on all 64 pads. Now, you can switch between these two modes. (Novation has actually made the lack of a step sequencer on their Launchpad Pro a selling point for this very reason. If you want to have your cake and eat it, too, though, Push’s ability to choose may be ideal.)

They’ve also released a new video showing that off – below.

What else?
In preferences, you can now toggle “Start Transport with Tap Tempo” to tap tempo your way into playback. (Sing along: “Uno! Dos! Tres! Catorce!”)

You can right-click clips and choose “Warp Selection as x-Bar Loop” — I really like this one.

Thank you for this one, too. (I think if you can understand what this combination of words means, you were annoyed by this just like me!) “Modifying the Arrangement loop brace with mouse or keys will not affect the current track selection, while previously all tracks were selected as soon as the braces where adjusted with the mouse.”

But it also breaks backwards compatibility. Live 9.1x brought a lot of bug fixes. It’s a stable release. And if you’re running Windows XP, Windows Vista, OS X 10.5, or OS X 10.6, you’ll need to stick with it, because 9.2 drops those operating systems. I think this is mainly an issue on the Mac side; Windows users, the recent Windows updates have been really solid and appear to run everything. I know there are some Mac users, though, who can’t upgrade their OS on their hardware. My advice: consider that system one that you maintain with the current combination of OSes, drivers, and applications. If you want the new stuff, do that on a new system.

Plus a bunch of hardware controller fixes. One thing I think people don’t realize about Ableton is that they actually take responsibility for modifying a lot of the remote scripts supplied to third-party hardware controllers; there isn’t a major controller on the market that isn’t in some sense a collaboration between the maker and Ableton. It’s worth looking through the changelog here to see if there’s anything for the hardware you use.

Push is vastly improved in a lot of little ways. Speaking of controller support, Ableton has lavished attention on their flagship controller.

Finally: better aftertouch, the ability to use the ribbon as a mod wheel, and more control over parameters with the encoders.

I’m going to paste this stuff here, as it’s all pretty significant:

Added 64 Pad Drum Rack mode for Push. The Note button now toggles between the Drum Rack three section layout and the 64 Pad Mode.
Improved Aftertouch response and added an Aftertouch Threshold setting in the Push User Preferences
Added Modwheel functionality for the Push Ribbon Controller. Tapping the Ribbon Controller while holding “Select” toggles between Pitch Bend and Modwheel function.
Holding “Delete” and tapping an encoder on Push resets the respective parameter to the default setting.
Holding “Shift” while turning an encoder on Push changes the respective parameter with finer resolution.
Improved buttons readability on Push. The Repeat and Metronome buttons now blink if active.
When recording using Repeat on Push, the MIDI notes would be recorded with a negative offset with respect to the grid if the option “Reduced Latency when Monitoring” was on. This caused the very first note in the Clip not to be played back at all.
Using “Shift” + “Add Effect” or “Add Track” while in Scales mode would cause the display to show the Note Layout options even after releasing the Shift button.
When selecting a Drum Rack Pad set to Multisample mode with Push, pressing “Device In” with Push would automatically select the first device in the Chain list, and it would not be possible to go back to the enclosing Instrument Rack device.

— on top of a lot of stuff for Mac users with newer toys. If you hadn’t upgraded to 9.1.7, you should definitely grab the latest stable version, too if you a) run OS X 10.10 Yosemite or b) use a Retina Display. There are loads of improvements for those two groups.

Beta release notes:
https://www.ableton.com/en/articles/live-9-beta-release-notes/

Beta download (sign-up required):
http://www.ableton.com/beta/

Push Zach

Here’s noted controllerist Mad Zach in a performance produced by Ableton with Push. And yes, you’ll notice he’s using all 64 pads even with a Drum Rack.

Having spent years covering the monome phenomenon, I think it’s also worth noting how different this sounds from a monome performance, because of the addition of velocity and continuous pressure. Players of the monome (starting, notably, with Daedelus) developed styles built around the sort of flatness of the controller grid. Sometimes, that led to edgy, in-your-face beats, and sometimes it simply allowed subtlety to come from varying volume levels in a chopped up samples.

But here, Zach is able to play fairly aggressively, but with swells that come from his actual playing. You can close your eyes and listen to this and somehow know it’s not a monome – at least in my opinion. (No double-blind test to try that out.) As such, it also sounds a lot more like an MPC performance.

He’s — really good with the technical facility in his fingers. I still have some personal resistance to playing Push myself, I think because I grew up playing the piano, but it can work.

Speaking of Zach, here’s his new music video, as premiered on VICE. “Haunting, grimy bass” with “twisted beats” – yep, VICE nails it. And Zach flies in the face of the belief that Americans in Berlin just make sound-alike dark techno.

Mad Zach’s New Video Will Haunt Your Street Dreams

Check out his EP.

Nice to remember again, as always, that all these little fixes and tweaks and software updates do eventually serve the purpose of making music. We are all of us in a dance between engineering and art.

  • SNYCE

    So is the automation compensaion the same as PDC!?

    • Yes, as I understand it, automation no longer interferes with plug-in delay compensation. That was definitely a flaw before.

      • SNYCE

        nice!this was always a big one for me.

  • SNYCE

    So is the automation compensaion the same as PDC!?

    • Yes, as I understand it, automation no longer interferes with plug-in delay compensation. That was definitely a flaw before.

      • SNYCE

        nice!this was always a big one for me.

  • SNYCE

    So is the automation compensaion the same as PDC!?

    • Yes, as I understand it, automation no longer interferes with plug-in delay compensation. That was definitely a flaw before.

      • SNYCE

        nice!this was always a big one for me.

  • chaircrusher

    For once I’m rewarded by keeping up to date with Windows OS releases.

    I end up hand warping everything because Live has trouble with so much music.

    If anyone hasn’t figured out the trick that works with computer clocked tracks:

    1. find the first solid downbeat. Right click on it and choose ‘Set 1.1.1 here” from the context menu. This doesn’t have to be the very first downbeat. The first unambiguous one, when the kick comes in is fine.
    2. Find the next downbeat and drag it to the start of the second bar.

    This gives you a very rough estimation of the tempo. Now repeat these steps:
    3. Go to the 5th, 17th, 33rd, 65th, 129th bar in turn and drag the downbeat to the start of the bar.

    4. If your 1.1.1 marker isn’t at the start of the track, drag the track start flag (over the waveform) to the left to the real start of the track.

    Actually after step two, it may be sufficient after step 2 to go back to the 1.1.1 marker, and choose ‘warp from here’ Live does well if you get the right downbeat and have the tempo within a few BPM of the correct one.

    The most important tip: Never try to warp Li’l Louis “French Kiss” all the way through.

    Fun fact — if you really zoom in on the waveforms, you’ll find TR909-clocked tracks have slightly different lengths for even and odd measures.

    • Yes, exactly right – though having it automatically detect fixed tempo is already an improvement!

    • Wow, that sounds tedious…

      • chaircrusher

        Not bad once you’ve done it a few times. the main thing is finding the downbeat and adjusting the first few bars. When you go further out you’re just fine tuning.

  • chaircrusher

    For once I’m rewarded by keeping up to date with Windows OS releases.

    I end up hand warping everything because Live has trouble with so much music.

    If anyone hasn’t figured out the trick that works with computer clocked tracks:

    1. find the first solid downbeat. Right click on it and choose ‘Set 1.1.1 here” from the context menu. This doesn’t have to be the very first downbeat. The first unambiguous one, when the kick comes in is fine.
    2. Find the next downbeat and drag it to the start of the second bar.

    This gives you a very rough estimation of the tempo. Now repeat these steps:
    3. Go to the 5th, 17th, 33rd, 65th, 129th bar in turn and drag the downbeat to the start of the bar.

    4. If your 1.1.1 marker isn’t at the start of the track, drag the track start flag (over the waveform) to the left to the real start of the track.

    Actually after step two, it may be sufficient after step 2 to go back to the 1.1.1 marker, and choose ‘warp from here’ Live does well if you get the right downbeat and have the tempo within a few BPM of the correct one.

    The most important tip: Never try to warp Li’l Louis “French Kiss” all the way through.

    Fun fact — if you really zoom in on the waveforms, you’ll find TR909-clocked tracks have slightly different lengths for even and odd measures.

    • Yes, exactly right – though having it automatically detect fixed tempo is already an improvement!

    • Wow, that sounds tedious…

      • chaircrusher

        Not bad once you’ve done it a few times. the main thing is finding the downbeat and adjusting the first few bars. When you go further out you’re just fine tuning.

  • chaircrusher

    For once I’m rewarded by keeping up to date with Windows OS releases.

    I end up hand warping everything because Live has trouble with so much music.

    If anyone hasn’t figured out the trick that works with computer clocked tracks:

    1. find the first solid downbeat. Right click on it and choose ‘Set 1.1.1 here” from the context menu. This doesn’t have to be the very first downbeat. The first unambiguous one, when the kick comes in is fine.
    2. Find the next downbeat and drag it to the start of the second bar.

    This gives you a very rough estimation of the tempo. Now repeat these steps:
    3. Go to the 5th, 17th, 33rd, 65th, 129th bar in turn and drag the downbeat to the start of the bar.

    4. If your 1.1.1 marker isn’t at the start of the track, drag the track start flag (over the waveform) to the left to the real start of the track.

    Actually after step two, it may be sufficient after step 2 to go back to the 1.1.1 marker, and choose ‘warp from here’ Live does well if you get the right downbeat and have the tempo within a few BPM of the correct one.

    The most important tip: Never try to warp Li’l Louis “French Kiss” all the way through.

    Fun fact — if you really zoom in on the waveforms, you’ll find TR909-clocked tracks have slightly different lengths for even and odd measures.

    • Yes, exactly right – though having it automatically detect fixed tempo is already an improvement!

    • Wow, that sounds tedious…

      • chaircrusher

        Not bad once you’ve done it a few times. the main thing is finding the downbeat and adjusting the first few bars. When you go further out you’re just fine tuning.

  • Freeks

    This have been driving me nuts for years:
    “Modifying the Arrangement loop brace with mouse or keys will not affect the current track selection,”

    Glad that it finally detects first transient as first downbeat. It took like 10 years but finally it works as it was promised in first place.

  • Freeks

    This have been driving me nuts for years:
    “Modifying the Arrangement loop brace with mouse or keys will not affect the current track selection,”

    Glad that it finally detects first transient as first downbeat. It took like 10 years but finally it works as it was promised in first place.

  • Freeks

    This have been driving me nuts for years:
    “Modifying the Arrangement loop brace with mouse or keys will not affect the current track selection,”

    Glad that it finally detects first transient as first downbeat. It took like 10 years but finally it works as it was promised in first place.

  • Freeks

    “there isn’t a major controller on the market that isn’t in some sense a collaboration between the maker and Ableton. ”

    There is zero support for Arturia controllers. Arturia is doing more and more controllers and no Ableton support in sight. I paid 400€ for Arturia Keylab 61 and find out it does not like play with Ableton. Ableton has support for my 10 year old Korg MicroKontroller that Korg dropped support years ago (editor for only with Rosetta). Kudos for that, but would appreciate support for modern controllers too.

    • These collaborations do require effort (and resources) on the part of the vendors. So I chose my words carefully. The Keylab’s main purpose is as a keyboard controller, and a front end to Arturia’s software instruments. It’s not principally intended as a DAW controller.

      But let’s back up – what are you trying to do with it? Because I imagine hacking in support would be completely doable.

      • Freeks

        I’d like to have same support that Bitwig has. It’s very deep controller for Bitwig. I tried to hack it with controller scripts but it din’t work. At minimum it would be great if the transport buttons would work with Live.

        There is one simple script in Arturia forum, but it does not work with my system.

        Is there any company services for Python scripts for live?

        • Do you mean a vendor providing ready-made scripts for all sorts (or specific) controllers that you could purchase? A quick googling did not return anything, as far as I could see. But there is a ton of info about how to get your hands dirty with scripting yourself. Apart from that, my first port of call would always be the vendor of the specific hardware that you would want to work with Live.

    • mercury

      Check arturia forum – I’m pretty sure there was a script for the Keylab 61 there.

    • Well, after having stood corrected by another forum poster a while ago on another blog post here on CDM, I must second that in a way. No idea about Arturia specifically, but there is indeed quite a fair bit of “newer” generation controllers missing.

      However, I am quite sure that Arturia specifically would rather focus on sporting their own software products instead. Particularly for those keyboards that are explicitely meant as a front-end to their software synths.

  • Freeks

    “there isn’t a major controller on the market that isn’t in some sense a collaboration between the maker and Ableton. ”

    There is zero support for Arturia controllers. Arturia is doing more and more controllers and no Ableton support in sight. I paid 400€ for Arturia Keylab 61 and find out it does not like play with Ableton. Ableton has support for my 10 year old Korg MicroKontroller that Korg dropped support years ago (editor for only with Rosetta). Kudos for that, but would appreciate support for modern controllers too.

    • These collaborations do require effort (and resources) on the part of the vendors. So I chose my words carefully. The Keylab’s main purpose is as a keyboard controller, and a front end to Arturia’s software instruments. It’s not principally intended as a DAW controller.

      But let’s back up – what are you trying to do with it? Because I imagine hacking in support would be completely doable.

      • Freeks

        I’d like to have same support that Bitwig has. It’s very deep controller for Bitwig. I tried to hack it with controller scripts but it din’t work. At minimum it would be great if the transport buttons would work with Live.

        There is one simple script in Arturia forum, but it does not work with my system.

        Is there any company services for Python scripts for live?

        • Do you mean a vendor providing ready-made scripts for all sorts (or specific) controllers that you could purchase? A quick googling did not return anything, as far as I could see. But there is a ton of info about how to get your hands dirty with scripting yourself. Apart from that, my first port of call would always be the vendor of the specific hardware that you would want to work with Live.

    • mercury

      Check arturia forum – I’m pretty sure there was a script for the Keylab 61 there.

    • Well, after having stood corrected by another forum poster a while ago on another blog post here on CDM, I must second that in a way. No idea about Arturia specifically, but there is indeed quite a fair bit of “newer” generation controllers missing.

      However, I am quite sure that Arturia specifically would rather focus on sporting their own software products instead. Particularly for those keyboards that are explicitely meant as a front-end to their software synths.

      On an additional note: There are 34 mentions of “control surface” in Ableton’s beta release notes: https://www.ableton.com/en/articles/live-9-beta-release-notes/ Which indicates to me that they are indeed doing quite some work on that – to whatever extent.

  • Freeks

    “there isn’t a major controller on the market that isn’t in some sense a collaboration between the maker and Ableton. ”

    There is zero support for Arturia controllers. Arturia is doing more and more controllers and no Ableton support in sight. I paid 400€ for Arturia Keylab 61 and find out it does not like play with Ableton. Ableton has support for my 10 year old Korg MicroKontroller that Korg dropped support years ago (editor for only with Rosetta). Kudos for that, but would appreciate support for modern controllers too.

    • These collaborations do require effort (and resources) on the part of the vendors. So I chose my words carefully. The Keylab’s main purpose is as a keyboard controller, and a front end to Arturia’s software instruments. It’s not principally intended as a DAW controller.

      But let’s back up – what are you trying to do with it? Because I imagine hacking in support would be completely doable.

      • Freeks

        I’d like to have same support that Bitwig has. It’s very deep controller for Bitwig. I tried to hack it with controller scripts but it din’t work. At minimum it would be great if the transport buttons would work with Live.

        There is one simple script in Arturia forum, but it does not work with my system.

        Is there any company services for Python scripts for live?

        • Do you mean a vendor providing ready-made scripts for all sorts (or specific) controllers that you could purchase? A quick googling did not return anything, as far as I could see. But there is a ton of info about how to get your hands dirty with scripting yourself. Apart from that, my first port of call would always be the vendor of the specific hardware that you would want to work with Live.

    • mercury

      Check arturia forum – I’m pretty sure there was a script for the Keylab 61 there.

    • Well, after having stood corrected by another forum poster a while ago on another blog post here on CDM, I must second that in a way. No idea about Arturia specifically, but there is indeed quite a fair bit of “newer” generation controllers missing.

      However, I am quite sure that Arturia specifically would rather focus on sporting their own software products instead. Particularly for those keyboards that are explicitely meant as a front-end to their software synths.

      On an additional note: There are 34 mentions of “control surface” in Ableton’s beta release notes: https://www.ableton.com/en/articles/live-9-beta-release-notes/ Which indicates to me that they are indeed doing quite some work on that – to whatever extent.

  • ElectroB

    “You want to warp techno and house without headaches.”
    “You wish warped tracks sounded better. ”
    Wishes granted.
    Thank you, gods of the digital world!
    *drops on his knees, whimpering and sobbing*

    As for the guitar tuner – nice!

    But the wonders of Max for Live had already provided a solution, which i’ve been making good use of.
    http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device.php?id=97

    The not good bits:
    Windows XP and 10.5 / 10.6 dropped – too soon for that, especially for OSX guys. I would understand that drop of support by the time Live 10 comes out in a few years, but there are loads of people still using those systems. Snow Leopard is just 5 years old, for crying out loud! Ableton is pulling an Apple, I guess.

    • Well, if we got into the list of things we still want from Ableton, that’d be a… a long story. So I’m only focused on what’s in 9.2.

      The Mac thing – I know, I know it’s painful. I think it’s a platform-wide problem, though, as much as Ableton.

      Windows 8 on an older machine, maybe with the flashy bits turned off, can be perfectly reasonable. I’m curious how it’s running on the RasPi, actually, though I’d mainly want to run Linux there. 😉

      • ElectroB

        True, I’m sure the list would never-ending.

        As an occasional guitarist I just had to whine about an improvement of Amp (which would allow me to ditch external VSTs that eat up processing power) – however, I totally understand that features for guitar players are really not Ableton’s priority.

        Obviously, warping and latency improvements such as the ones on 9.2 are much more crucial (among other things).

        As for the Apple platform problems – by platform-wide, you mean support and development issues related to legacy code, etc?
        Anyway, let’s just say that luckily my machine is Retina generation, but I feel sorry for those people who own perfectly functioning 2007 macbooks.

        Making music with Windows 8 on an old machine could work on those conditions, if you have a decent processor and preferably more than 4gb of RAM.

        RasPi = crazyness. Would it work?

      • As much as I understand many users’ complaints, when an application vendor drops support for a certain range of discontinued operating systems, I would like to chip in with a small comment here:

        From a software development perspective, it always makes sense to reduce the number of variables that you need to handle. And compatibility with many different OSes is always skyrocketing the number of variables to juggle. So, Ableton just does what Apple has been encouraging for quite a while now. Also, Apple’s own track record on making their customers switch to latest versions of OSes is pretty good – particularly compared to the Windows world of things. Therefore, I would argue that the issue is much smaller (in sheer number of affected users) on the OS X side than on the Windows side. Hence, despite being a pain in the neck for those who actually are affected, totally understandable from Ableton’s point of view.

  • ElectroB

    “You want to warp techno and house without headaches.”
    “You wish warped tracks sounded better. ”
    Wishes granted.
    Thank you, gods of the digital world!
    *drops on his knees, whimpering and sobbing*
    These issues drove me a bit mad and were quite time-consuming. Glad to see them addressed.

    Latency compensation fixes are also very important, particularly since I many people (myself included) also use Live as a virtual synth/sampler and play live keyboards or finger pads.

    As for the guitar tuner – nice touch!
    But the wonders of Max for Live had already provided a solution, which i’ve been making good use of.
    http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device.php?id=97

    The not good bits:

    Again, nice touch with the guitar tuner, but I wish they would improve the guitar amp modelling features. The Amp plugin sounds like crap when I play my bass or guitar through it. Maybe in Live 10.

    Windows XP and 10.5 / 10.6 dropped – a bit too soon for that, especially for OSX guys. I would understand that drop of support by the time Live 10 comes out in a few years, but there are loads of people still using those systems. Snow Leopard is just 5 years old, for crying out loud! Ableton is pulling an Apple, I guess.
    In any case, I agree this is less serious for Windows people – older XP machines with good specs usually handle Windows 7 pretty well, maybe even 8

    • Well, if we got into the list of things we still want from Ableton, that’d be a… a long story. So I’m only focused on what’s in 9.2.

      The Mac thing – I know, I know it’s painful. I think it’s a platform-wide problem, though, as much as Ableton.

      Windows 8 on an older machine, maybe with the flashy bits turned off, can be perfectly reasonable. I’m curious how it’s running on the RasPi, actually, though I’d mainly want to run Linux there. 😉

      • ElectroB

        True, I’m sure the list would never-ending.

        As an occasional guitarist I just had to whine about an improvement of Amp (which would allow me to ditch external VSTs that eat up processing power) – however, I totally understand that features for guitar players are really not Ableton’s priority.

        Obviously, warping and latency improvements such as the ones on 9.2 are much more crucial (among other things).

        As for the Apple platform problems – by platform-wide, you mean support and development issues related to legacy code, etc?
        Anyway, let’s just say that luckily my machine is Retina generation, but I feel sorry for those people who own perfectly functioning 2007 macbooks.

        Making music with Windows 8 on an old machine could work on those conditions, if you have a decent processor and preferably more than 2gb of RAM.

        RasPi = crazyness. Would it work?

      • As much as I understand many users’ complaints, when an application vendor drops support for a certain range of discontinued operating systems, I would like to chip in with a small comment here:

        From a software development perspective, it always makes sense to reduce the number of variables that you need to handle. And compatibility with many different OSes is always skyrocketing the number of variables to juggle. So, Ableton just does what Apple has been encouraging for quite a while now. Also, Apple’s own track record on making their customers switch to latest versions of OSes is pretty good – particularly compared to the Windows world of things. Therefore, I would argue that the issue is much smaller (in sheer number of affected users) on the OS X side than on the Windows side. Hence, despite being a pain in the neck for those who actually are affected, totally understandable from Ableton’s point of view.

  • Elekb

    “You want to warp techno and house without headaches.”
    “You wish warped tracks sounded better. ”
    Wishes granted.
    Thank you, gods of the digital world!
    *drops on his knees, whimpering and sobbing*
    These issues drove me a bit mad and were quite time-consuming. Glad to see them addressed.

    Latency compensation fixes are also very important, particularly since I many people (myself included) also use Live as a virtual synth/sampler and play live keyboards or finger pads.

    As for the guitar tuner – nice touch!
    But the wonders of Max for Live had already provided a solution, which i’ve been making good use of.
    http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device.php?id=97

    The not good bits:

    Again, nice touch with the guitar tuner, but I wish they would improve the guitar amp modelling features. The Amp plugin sounds like crap when I play my bass or guitar through it. Maybe in Live 10.

    Windows XP and 10.5 / 10.6 dropped – a bit too soon for that, especially for OSX guys. I would understand that drop of support by the time Live 10 comes out in a few years, but there are loads of people still using those systems. Snow Leopard is just 5 years old, for crying out loud! Ableton is pulling an Apple, I guess.
    In any case, I agree this is less serious for Windows people – older XP machines with good specs usually handle Windows 7 pretty well, maybe even 8

    • Well, if we got into the list of things we still want from Ableton, that’d be a… a long story. So I’m only focused on what’s in 9.2.

      The Mac thing – I know, I know it’s painful. I think it’s a platform-wide problem, though, as much as Ableton.

      Windows 8 on an older machine, maybe with the flashy bits turned off, can be perfectly reasonable. I’m curious how it’s running on the RasPi, actually, though I’d mainly want to run Linux there. 😉

      • Elekb

        True, I’m sure the list would never-ending.

        As an occasional guitarist I just had to whine about an improvement of Amp (which would allow me to ditch external VSTs that eat up processing power) – however, I totally understand that features for guitar players are really not Ableton’s priority.

        Obviously, warping and latency improvements such as the ones on 9.2 are much more crucial (among other things).

        As for the Apple platform problems – by platform-wide, you mean support and development issues related to legacy code, etc?
        Anyway, let’s just say that luckily my machine is Retina generation, but I feel sorry for those people who own perfectly functioning 2007 macbooks.

        Making music with Windows 8 on an old machine could work on those conditions, if you have a decent processor and preferably more than 2gb of RAM.

        RasPi = crazyness. Would it work?

      • As much as I understand many users’ complaints, when an application vendor drops support for a certain range of discontinued operating systems, I would like to chip in with a small comment here:

        From a software development perspective, it always makes sense to reduce the number of variables that you need to handle. And compatibility with many different OSes is always skyrocketing the number of variables to juggle. So, Ableton just does what Apple has been encouraging for quite a while now. Also, Apple’s own track record on making their customers switch to latest versions of OSes is pretty good – particularly compared to the Windows world of things. Therefore, I would argue that the issue is much smaller (in sheer number of affected users) on the OS X side than on the Windows side. Hence, despite being a pain in the neck for those who actually are affected, totally understandable from Ableton’s point of view.

  • itchy

    im hoping the tuner does not just display notes and displays frequencies to .000 or something very precise. knowing ableton im sure this is the case. def wanted this feature in the case of messing with certain specific frequencys

  • itchy

    im hoping the tuner does not just display notes and displays frequencies to .000 or something very precise. knowing ableton im sure this is the case. def wanted this feature in the case of messing with certain specific frequencys

  • itchy

    im hoping the tuner does not just display notes and displays frequencies to .000 or something very precise. knowing ableton im sure this is the case. def wanted this feature in the case of messing with certain specific frequencys

  • unspecified consumer

    Polyphonic aftertouch support would’ve been nice, this being the 21st century and all, but I guess nobody cares.

    • Well, tell us how many controllers in the market (keyboard – not even starting to look at pads) do have polyphonic aftertouch today? And what would be the price tags of those (thinking of Haken Continuum, for example?)

      Don’t get me wrong – I won’t say it would be unreasonable to ask for that feature. But why are there so few controllers that actually sport that feature? And is it really adding so much value to so many use cases that it should be more widespread?

      • Andrew

        CMR a keys transmits polyphonic after touch and is $99

        • Andrew

          CME Xkey that should say

          • Well, that was the quick answer. I actually owned that one myself for a while and never really made use of that particular feature. So, what is it you would use it for, if it was in a controller you would purchase?

          • Andrew

            I’d use it for expression. I used it a bit on the actual Cs-80 so I got used to it.

        • Andrew

          CME Xkey that should say

      • Andrew

        CMR a keys transmits polyphonic after touch and is $99

  • unspecified consumer

    Polyphonic aftertouch support would’ve been nice, this being the 21st century and all, but I guess nobody cares.

    • Well, tell us how many controllers in the market (keyboard – not even starting to look at pads) do have polyphonic aftertouch today? And what would be the price tags of those (thinking of Haken Continuum, for example?)

      Don’t get me wrong – I won’t say it would be unreasonable to ask for that feature. But why are there so few controllers that actually sport that feature? And is it really adding so much value to so many use cases that it should be more widespread?

      • Andrew

        CMR a keys transmits polyphonic after touch and is $99

        • Andrew

          CME Xkey that should say

          • Well, that was the quick answer. I actually owned that one myself for a while and never really made use of that particular feature. So, what is it you would use it for, if it was in a controller you would purchase?

          • Andrew

            I’d use it for expression. I used it a bit on the actual Cs-80 so I got used to it.

  • unspecified consumer

    Polyphonic aftertouch support would’ve been nice, this being the 21st century and all, but I guess nobody cares.

    • Well, tell us how many controllers in the market (keyboard – not even starting to look at pads) do have polyphonic aftertouch today? And what would be the price tags of those (thinking of Haken Continuum, for example?)

      Don’t get me wrong – I won’t say it would be unreasonable to ask for that feature. But why are there so few controllers that actually sport that feature? And is it really adding so much value to so many use cases that it should be more widespread?

      • Andrew

        CMR a keys transmits polyphonic after touch and is $99

        • Andrew

          CME Xkey that should say

          • Well, that was the quick answer. I actually owned that one myself for a while and never really made use of that particular feature. So, what is it you would use it for, if it was in a controller you would purchase?

          • Andrew

            I’d use it for expression. I used it a bit on the actual Cs-80 so I got used to it.

  • Bobby A

    Is there supposed to be a link to a push performance by the Zach guy? all i see is a music video without any Push action

  • Bobby A

    Is there supposed to be a link to a push performance by the Zach guy? all i see is a music video without any Push action

  • Bobby A

    Is there supposed to be a link to a push performance by the Zach guy? all i see is a music video without any Push action

  • ceasless

    No mention as to whether they’ve added support for keeping the darn Push scale associated with the clip. They have clip automations, I really cannot fathom how this is a hard thing to add. And if it is really that difficult, it points to some pretty serious problems in the Live codebase.

    • Different scales in different clips? You mean C-major in the melody and a-minor in the bass, for example? I would love to learn about what use cases you would have for that. (And this is definitely meant seriously – not trolling!)

      • ceasless

        It doesn’t even necessarily need to be per-clip. I would be fine with per-project. But it seems like per-clip is the more sensible place to do it.

        Right now projects/clips have no memory of the scale you used when you load them again. This can be pretty annoying when you come back to a track after a while and have to figure out which scale you had used originally.

        • Got it. That makes perfectly sense. I just haven’t used different scales yet, so it has obviously not been a problem for me. But I can see your point now.

      • ceasless

        But you could also use a pentatonic scale next to a major or minor scale, just as a small example.

    • I would really like that! I’ve been saving the scales in the filenames of sets mostly, but it’s still very annoying when I forget to!

  • ceasless

    No mention as to whether they’ve added support for keeping the darn Push scale associated with the clip. They have clip automations, I really cannot fathom how this is a hard thing to add. And if it is really that difficult, it points to some pretty serious problems in the Live codebase.

    • Different scales in different clips? You mean C-major in the melody and a-minor in the bass, for example? I would love to learn about what use cases you would have for that. (And this is definitely meant seriously – not trolling!)

      • ceasless

        It doesn’t even necessarily need to be per-clip. I would be fine with per-project. But it seems like per-clip is the more sensible place to do it.

        Right now projects/clips have no memory of the scale you used when you load them again. This can be pretty annoying when you come back to a track after a while and have to figure out which scale you had used originally.

        • Got it. That makes perfectly sense. I just haven’t used different scales yet, so it has obviously not been a problem for me. But I can see your point now.

      • ceasless

        But you could also use a pentatonic scale next to a major or minor scale, just as a small example.

    • I would really like that! I’ve been saving the scales in the filenames of sets mostly, but it’s still very annoying when I forget to!

  • ceasless

    No mention as to whether they’ve added support for keeping the darn Push scale associated with the clip. They have clip automations, I really cannot fathom how this is a hard thing to add. And if it is really that difficult, it points to some pretty serious problems in the Live codebase.

    • Different scales in different clips? You mean C-major in the melody and a-minor in the bass, for example? I would love to learn about what use cases you would have for that. (And this is definitely meant seriously – not trolling!)

      • ceasless

        It doesn’t even necessarily need to be per-clip. I would be fine with per-project. But it seems like per-clip is the more sensible place to do it.

        Right now projects/clips have no memory of the scale you used when you load them again. This can be pretty annoying when you come back to a track after a while and have to figure out which scale you had used originally.

        • Got it. That makes perfectly sense. I just haven’t used different scales yet, so it has obviously not been a problem for me. But I can see your point now.

      • ceasless

        But you could also use a pentatonic scale next to a major or minor scale, just as a small example.

    • I would really like that! I’ve been saving the scales in the filenames of sets mostly, but it’s still very annoying when I forget to!

  • dabravanel

    “We are all of us in a dance between engineering and art.”

    But, more importantly, what kind of dance? I like to imagine it’s a kind of waltz. Or perhaps an advanced tap.

  • dabravanel

    “We are all of us in a dance between engineering and art.”

    But, more importantly, what kind of dance? I like to imagine it’s a kind of waltz. Or perhaps an advanced tap.

  • dabravanel

    “We are all of us in a dance between engineering and art.”

    But, more importantly, what kind of dance? I like to imagine it’s a kind of waltz. Or perhaps an advanced tap.

  • Dan

    Especially with this new emphasis on external hardware, Live should be able to send SysEx messages.

  • Dan

    Especially with this new emphasis on external hardware, Live should be able to send SysEx messages.

  • Dan

    Especially with this new emphasis on external hardware, Live should be able to send SysEx messages.

  • nisios

    Whats that blue spring reverb?

    • Matt Jackson

      Ekdal moisturizer

  • nisios

    Whats that blue spring reverb?

    • Matt Jackson

      Ekdal moisturizer

  • nisios

    Whats that blue spring reverb?

    • Matt Jackson

      Ekdal moisturizer

  • I have joined the public beta program with 9.1.7, mainly because I was so eager to see how they finally solved the Retina issues (having a Retina MacBook myself). Overall, the process was really smooth – my (certainly not representative) impression was that the public beta versions are pretty far in terms of functionality and stability. I used the 9.1.7 betas all the way, parallel to the latest stable version at the time, and never got any problem with any of the project files.

    The nice thing is that the beta – once installed – uses your existing license to figure out what to activate. So, when you’ve got Live, you’ll test Live. When you’ve got Live Suite, you’ll test Suite. The same for M4L or Push. It can’t be any easier.

    Of course, you could complain, why should we as paying customers beta test the vendor’s new products? Well, Apple does it with OS X to some success, Propellerheads do it with Reason, and I am personally always interested in trying out new features (as long as they are relevant to my workflow.) And everybody who couldn’t be bothered joining, could just wait for the final version and be assured that it will already have been tested thoroughly by many users out there in the “real world” – and not only by a bunch of (obviously well skilled) developers in an office somewhere in Berlin…

  • I have joined the public beta program with 9.1.7, mainly because I was so eager to see how they finally solved the Retina issues (having a Retina MacBook myself). Overall, the process was really smooth – my (certainly not representative) impression was that the public beta versions are pretty far in terms of functionality and stability. I used the 9.1.7 betas all the way, parallel to the latest stable version at the time, and never got any problem with any of the project files.

    The nice thing is that the beta – once installed – uses your existing license to figure out what to activate. So, when you’ve got Live, you’ll test Live. When you’ve got Live Suite, you’ll test Suite. The same for M4L or Push. It can’t be any easier.

    Of course, you could complain, why should we as paying customers beta test the vendor’s new products? Well, Apple does it with OS X to some success, Propellerheads do it with Reason, and I am personally always interested in trying out new features (as long as they are relevant to my workflow.) And everybody who couldn’t be bothered joining, could just wait for the final version and be assured that it will already have been tested thoroughly by many users out there in the “real world” – and not only by a bunch of (obviously well skilled) developers in an office somewhere in Berlin…

  • I have joined the public beta program with 9.1.7, mainly because I was so eager to see how they finally solved the Retina issues (having a Retina MacBook myself). Overall, the process was really smooth – my (certainly not representative) impression was that the public beta versions are pretty far in terms of functionality and stability. I used the 9.1.7 betas all the way, parallel to the latest stable version at the time, and never got any problem with any of the project files.

    The nice thing is that the beta – once installed – uses your existing license to figure out what to activate. So, when you’ve got Live, you’ll test Live. When you’ve got Live Suite, you’ll test Suite. The same for M4L or Push. It can’t be any easier.

    Of course, you could complain, why should we as paying customers beta test the vendor’s new products? Well, Apple does it with OS X to some success, Propellerheads do it with Reason, and I am personally always interested in trying out new features (as long as they are relevant to my workflow.) And everybody who couldn’t be bothered joining, could just wait for the final version and be assured that it will already have been tested thoroughly by many users out there in the “real world” – and not only by a bunch of (obviously well skilled) developers in an office somewhere in Berlin…

  • mercury

    I think the NOTE Sequencer could be a lot better. For ex, why not make it like the drum rack sequencer, except with the 4 x 4 grid on the bottom left linked to scales just like normal note mode, so you can pick chromatic, all keys, scales, etc. In this manner you could hit a note, and then place the notes on the proper sequencer steps and then go to the next note. Seems like it would be much more versatile. Are there any other ways to do this?

  • mercury

    I think the NOTE Sequencer could be a lot better. For ex, why not make it like the drum rack sequencer, except with the 4 x 4 grid on the bottom left linked to scales just like normal note mode, so you can pick chromatic, all keys, scales, etc. In this manner you could hit a note, and then place the notes on the proper sequencer steps and then go to the next note. Seems like it would be much more versatile. Are there any other ways to do this?

  • mercury

    I think the NOTE Sequencer could be a lot better. For ex, why not make it like the drum rack sequencer, except with the 4 x 4 grid on the bottom left linked to scales just like normal note mode, so you can pick chromatic, all keys, scales, etc. In this manner you could hit a note, and then place the notes on the proper sequencer steps and then go to the next note. Seems like it would be much more versatile. Are there any other ways to do this?

  • dock men

    why the hell they just cant add mpc/maschine/etc type realtime note erase to push ? or just a button in the qui that you could map to any controller.. it is super simple thing and i think there would be thousands of users happy about this.. am i wrong ?

  • dock men

    why the hell they just cant add mpc/maschine/etc type realtime note erase to push ? or just a button in the qui that you could map to any controller.. it is super simple thing and i think there would be thousands of users happy about this.. am i wrong ?

  • dock men

    why the hell they just cant add mpc/maschine/etc type realtime note erase to push ? or just a button in the qui that you could map to any controller.. it is super simple thing and i think there would be thousands of users happy about this.. am i wrong ?

  • chaircrusher

    So I am torture testing the new warping. How to do that? Download, for example

    https://soundcloud.com/user48736353001/sallyvingoe

    It totally can’t handle it — can’t find the downbeat, nothing lines up right. It gets the tempo about right, which isn’t nothing. But this is a fairly steady machine beat; once I set 1.1.1 it was able to warp the rest of the track without markers, though I had to go out to like measure 185 and drag the downbeat to the start of measure.

    I don’t see it as a great improvement. I know I’m dumping confounding inputs into the process, but the AFX unreleased tracks aren’t THAT bad.

  • chaircrusher

    So I am torture testing the new warping. How to do that? Download, for example

    https://soundcloud.com/user48736353001/sallyvingoe

    It totally can’t handle it — can’t find the downbeat, nothing lines up right. It gets the tempo about right, which isn’t nothing. But this is a fairly steady machine beat; once I set 1.1.1 it was able to warp the rest of the track without markers, though I had to go out to like measure 185 and drag the downbeat to the start of measure.

    I don’t see it as a great improvement. I know I’m dumping confounding inputs into the process, but the AFX unreleased tracks aren’t THAT bad.

  • chaircrusher

    So I am torture testing the new warping. How to do that? Download, for example

    https://soundcloud.com/user48736353001/sallyvingoe

    It totally can’t handle it — can’t find the downbeat, nothing lines up right. It gets the tempo about right, which isn’t nothing. But this is a fairly steady machine beat; once I set 1.1.1 it was able to warp the rest of the track without markers, though I had to go out to like measure 185 and drag the downbeat to the start of measure.

    I don’t see it as a great improvement. I know I’m dumping confounding inputs into the process, but the AFX unreleased tracks aren’t THAT bad.