Apple’s strategy is clear: make one line of things that are laptops (running OS X), make another line of things that are touch-based (running iOS). That strategy has served them – and musicians and other creatives – well. You can certainly have a lot of fun with a fairly inexpensive iPad full of apps, and the MacBook line has earned its place as the music laptop of choice.

But that’s still left some creative types in the gap between the two. That is, it did, until today.

What if you want touch, but you don’t want to give up serious desktop apps?

What about developers, who want to make those apps but simply can’t make money on them selling them as $10 apps?

What if you want an ultra-mobile laptop, but you also want a powerful GPU (for instance, if you’re doing visual performance)?

Microsoft’s Surface Book looks a little more like what some pros might have imagined the iPad Pro (or a non-existent touch MacBook) would be. There are plenty of other tech sites to cover this news, so let’s cut straight to the important bits:

Surface-Book-image-6

It has the power of a laptop. Two USB 3.0 ports, i5/i7 processors. And it just runs Windows. (Ableton, cough. Yep.) If that’s not enough for you, a dock adds four USB 3.0 ports, gigabit Ethernet, and dual high-definition video ports (mini DisplayPort).

But it’s an enormous tablet. 13.5″ tablet to be precise. crucially, it operates both when docked with the machine (giving you all that laptop functionality) or undocked (if you want to port it around a bit).

The hinge folds all the way backward. This is crucial: you can use it flat, ideal for live performance and focusing on music, while it’s still connected to all the laptop-y bits in the base. It’s not the first laptop to do that, but a better-designed hinge and more serious, price-competitive specs make it arguably the first to be genuinely appealing in this mode.

There’s still a GPU. Okay, I’m going to go really niche here for a second – this is a big detail for anyone doing live visuals with software like vvvv and Resolume, because while integrated graphics have gotten more powerful, they’re a bit unpredictable when it comes to real-time graphics. This could be the machine you want to do everything. (Did I mention the dual DisplayPort outputs on the dock?)

It’s big. Over 13″ – so it’s bigger than the iPad Pro.

It isn’t cheap – but it’s probably the only machine you need. US$1499 starting price means this is more expensive than the iPad Pro, even once you figure in Apple’s pricey keyboard and pen accessories and more internal memory. On the other hand, it’s competitive with other laptops, which is the whole point. And it means you don’t have to keep buying a separate tablet.

Higher-end models are pricey – even 256GB internal memory means you’re paying $1699. But all models have at least 128GB storage and an i5, and even the GPU model starts at a not-astronomical $1899.

Oh, yeah, and this is above and beyond a Surface Pro 4 that’s more competitive with the iPad Pro – but I think the Surface Book is the real news.

I’ll be honest: my gut reaction is that I’d at least consider this as a next machine. You pay extra for the multi-functional capability. You can still build a much cheaper desktop PC, or choose a laptop with more I/O or a lower price or a bigger display (or all of these). And if you just want a little touch, you can always add a tablet (like, ahem, the iPad) to whatever you’ve got. But for anyone in the ‘pro tablet’ market previously described, this is the first model that really looks like a contender.

And wherever you fall, the idea of budgeting nearly a grand for an iPad Pro seems to be to be even more crazy than it did on launch. (I still like the smaller iPads, which I think fit a different niche.)

Look, Microsoft must even recognize that we use this for music. They’re showing music images in their pics.

surfacebookmusic

Except… uh, why is it sitting next to CDJs (Windows happily runs Serato and Traktor), why is set up just for clip launching, and why is the controller sitting sideways?!

Okay. Better:

Surface-Book-The-most-powerful-laptop

Ha, and I just noticed who that is… that appears to be musician Thavius Beck. And he can use a controller sideways because he’s probably better at it than most of us.

Developers, developers, developers…

This isn’t necessarily bad news for anyone happily making iOS apps – not in the slightest. I suspect that ecosystem will remain entirely intact.

The issue is, I’m not yet convinced that the pricey iPad Pro will significantly expand that same market.

The news here is, this could create a market for touch-savvy desktop apps, especially for music making. The key is, will developers embrace the touch design. Software like FL Studio and Cakewalk SONAR already ostensibly have touch compatibility, and tools like Reason and Ableton Live are naturals, in theory. In practice, though, we need to see nearly all of these applications have user experiences that are thought out for touch.

My guess is, some smaller, independent developers might make touch controllers that are designed to sit on the Windows desktop, rather than use the “satellite app” model on iOS. And all it takes for a single developer to really go deep in this is hardware they actually want to develop on. The Surface Book could provide that.

Oh, and Bitwig. More on that separately.

In the meantime, this is competitive enough that I’d take a long look at this before buying a PC laptop, at least – and I think even some Mac users may have just lifted an eyebrow. (Logic users, not so much, but Ableton, Traktor, Cubase, Reason, Maschine, notation software, Pro Tools, and so forth don’t really look very different on the different platforms. Heck, I almost temporarily forgot you can run even DP on Windows these days.)

I will certainly try to get one for a review.

More:
https://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/devices/surface-book

Surface-Book-image-10

Surface-Book-image-6

Surface-Book-image-1-e1444134958401

surfacebook2

surfacebook

surfacebook3

  • Watch out for more on http://surfaceproaudio.com/

    • orpickanamo

      Thanks!

  • Watch out for more on http://surfaceproaudio.com/

    • orpickanamo

      Thanks!

  • Watch out for more on http://surfaceproaudio.com/

    • Pickard

      Thanks!

  • Ross Healy

    Nord Modular on Surface Pad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYJpjJ7442k

    • chimp techno

      This interaction makes me want to stab kittens

      • lala@lala.com

        I thought so too.
        please don’t show me more, its so scary, lets touch everything 10 times maybe we hit that little thing no so lets do stupid zoom stuff no dosent work either a lets forget the hands and use a pen, whats the point of a touchscreen if you have to use a pen? better get a laptop, lol

    • I guess I need new glasses…

    • People need to realise this software was designed for Windows XP, Would like to see someone trying to run software of this age on an new Apple device!
      Everything needs to be put in to context when choosing to critique.

      • lala

        so you want to get used to this?
        better be prepared for that 😉

        • Get used to what?

          • lala

            misusing the pen on the touchdisplay because its not made for touch

          • I really don’t understand what you are trying to get at, an individual is perfectly welcome to use any tools in whatever way they please.

          • lala

            my point is very simple, if I have to use a pen, I could just use a mouse=use a laptop. I don’t need to hold a pointer device, I have 10 pointer devices already, I call them fingers.

          • Which has “what” to do with being able to run software designed for Windows XP on a brand new OS ?

          • lala

            yeah, it works,but how? look at the headstand you have to do to use it, stylus makes the complete multitouch thing FUBAR.

          • lala

            if i need a pen it must be a nintendo ds ^^

          • BC Thunderthud

            Nah, I think the pen is great. Multi-touch has some cool applications
            but it took years for iOS to get any music applications that
            approached Bhajis Loops in power precisely because the finger is a
            shitty input device. And they work very differently, at least in a
            well-designed application. In practice there’s still a long way to go but it’s a great thing to have.

          • Agreed, i cant imagine people doing a very good job with staffpad using their fat digits even if you have the most ladylike hands.
            Its like comparing finger painting to calligraphy !

          • lala

            cough, how many music instruments do you play with pens? 😉
            I know of the stylophone, so thats one, lol

          • lala

            the instrument has to adapt to my abilities
            not I have to adapt to the stupid interface not constructed for the purpose 😉

          • What are you talking about?
            Judging by your display of abilities here there isn’t enough computing power in the world the adapt/help you.

          • lala

            yeah have fun with your setup and a nice day

          • orpickanamo

            Neil, let me tell you, _countless_ people watched Steve Jobs keynotes, enjoyed their goosebump moments of inspiration, and then they found themselves deep into this “Post-PC” enlightenment where every aspect of computing and life must be graced by the magical iPhone-like multi-touch experience (and _only_ that) to become worthy of sight, or even mention.

          • Who even mentioned playing musical instruments with pens, you are one of the strangest trolls I’ve ever come across ! – Congratulations.

          • BennyFromXXX

            Or an iPad Pro.

          • No that’s apparently a “pencil” without an eraser 😉

          • Wow talk about blinkered, you can still use a mouse if you want.
            The software works and that’s exactly what I was addressing in my first post, you seem to be strangely fixed on the use of the pan and cant move past that point, maybe a bug in the system.

          • You really dont get it do you?
            That piece of software is not designed for multi touch, its about 15 years old!
            Maybe when you have used a surface you’ll be qualified to have an opinion?

      • foljs

        “””Would like to see someone trying to run software of this age on an new Apple device!”””

        So you’d like the computing world to be held back by compatibility concerns?

        • Nope, I’m commending the ability to keep forging forward while maintaining operability whether intentional or not.

      • Tekknovator

        Spot on Neil. The MS of today is not only inventive (kinect, hololens…) but cross platform (you’ve seen the amount of devices win 10 can run on?) . Things seem to change sometimes… My zoom gfx 8 editor runs on win10, not on a mac anymore. Note to myself: I better stop posting, I start to sound like an evangelist. Should try to get pay for that 😉

    • Wow, it lives!

      Though this makes me want to see better touch support in some other apps. (Reason, for instance.)

      Curious what Reaktor will be like on this.

  • Ross Healy

    Nord Modular on Surface Pad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYJpjJ7442k

    • chimp techno

      This interaction makes me want to stab kittens

      • lala@lala.com

        I thought so too.
        please don’t show me more, its so scary, lets touch everything 10 times maybe we hit that little thing no so lets do stupid zoom stuff no dosent work either a lets forget the hands and use a pen, whats the point of a touchscreen if you have to use a pen? better get a laptop, lol

    • I guess I need new glasses…

    • People need to realise this software was designed for Windows XP, Would like to see someone trying to run software of this age on an new Apple device!
      Everything needs to be put in to context when choosing to critique.

      • lala

        so you want to get used to this?
        better be prepared for that 😉

        • Get used to what?

          • lala

            misusing the pen on the touchdisplay because its not made for touch

          • I really don’t understand what you are trying to get at, an individual is perfectly welcome to use any tools in whatever way they please.

          • lala

            my point is very simple, if I have to use a pen, I could just use a mouse=use a laptop. I don’t need to hold a pointer device, I have 10 pointer devices already, I call them fingers.

          • Which has “what” to do with being able to run software designed for Windows XP on a brand new OS ?

          • lala

            yeah, it works,but how? look at the headstand you have to do to use it, stylus makes the complete multitouch thing FUBAR.

          • lala

            if i need a pen it must be a nintendo ds ^^

          • BC Thunderthud

            Nah, I think the pen is great. Multi-touch has some cool applications
            but it took years for iOS to get any music applications that
            approached Bhajis Loops in power precisely because the finger is a
            shitty input device. And they work very differently, at least in a
            well-designed application. In practice there’s still a long way to go but it’s a great thing to have.

          • Agreed, i cant imagine people doing a very good job with staffpad using their fat digits even if you have the most ladylike hands.
            Its like comparing finger painting to calligraphy !

          • lala

            cough, how many music instruments do you play with pens? 😉
            I know of the stylophone, so thats one, lol

          • lala

            the instrument has to adapt to my abilities
            not I have to adapt to the stupid interface not constructed for the purpose 😉

          • What are you talking about?
            Judging by your display of abilities here there isn’t enough computing power in the world the adapt/help you.

          • lala

            yeah have fun with your setup and a nice day

          • orpickanamo

            Neil, let me tell you, _countless_ people watched Steve Jobs keynotes, enjoyed their goosebump moments of inspiration, and then they found themselves deep into this “Post-PC” enlightenment where every aspect of computing and life must be graced by the magical iPhone-like multi-touch experience (and _only_ that) to become worthy of sight, or even mention.

          • Who even mentioned playing musical instruments with pens, you are one of the strangest trolls I’ve ever come across ! – Congratulations.

          • BennyFromXXX

            Or an iPad Pro.

          • No that’s apparently a “pencil” without an eraser 😉

          • Wow talk about blinkered, you can still use a mouse if you want.
            The software works and that’s exactly what I was addressing in my first post, you seem to be strangely fixed on the use of the pan and cant move past that point, maybe a bug in the system.

          • You really dont get it do you?
            That piece of software is not designed for multi touch, its about 15 years old!
            Maybe when you have used a surface you’ll be qualified to have an opinion?

      • foljs

        “””Would like to see someone trying to run software of this age on an new Apple device!”””

        So you’d like the computing world to be held back by compatibility concerns?

        • Nope, I’m commending the ability to keep forging forward while maintaining operability whether intentional or not.

      • Tekknovator

        Spot on Neil. The MS of today is not only inventive (kinect, hololens…) but cross platform (you’ve seen the amount of devices win 10 can run on?) . Things seem to change sometimes… My zoom gfx 8 editor runs on win10, not on a mac anymore. Note to myself: I better stop posting, I start to sound like an evangelist. Should try to get pay for that 😉

    • Wow, it lives!

      Though this makes me want to see better touch support in some other apps. (Reason, for instance.)

      Curious what Reaktor will be like on this.

  • Ross Healy

    Nord Modular on Surface Pad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYJpjJ7442k

    • chimp techno

      This interaction makes me want to stab kittens

      • lala@lala.com

        I thought so too.
        please don’t show me more, its so scary, lets touch everything 10 times maybe we hit that little thing no so lets do stupid zoom stuff no dosent work either a lets forget the hands and use a pen, whats the point of a touchscreen if you have to use a pen? better get a laptop, lol

    • I guess I need new glasses…

    • People need to realise this software was designed for Windows XP, Would like to see someone trying to run software of this age on an new Apple device!
      Everything needs to be put in to context when choosing to critique.

      • lala

        so you want to get used to this?
        better be prepared for that 😉

        • Get used to what?

          • lala

            misusing the pen on the touchdisplay because its not made for touch

          • I really don’t understand what you are trying to get at, an individual is perfectly welcome to use any tools in whatever way they please.

          • lala

            my point is very simple, if I have to use a pen, I could just use a mouse=use a laptop. I don’t need to hold a pointer device, I have 10 pointer devices already, I call them fingers.

          • Which has “what” to do with being able to run software designed for Windows XP on a brand new OS ?

          • lala

            yeah, it works,but how? look at the headstand you have to do to use it, stylus makes the complete multitouch thing FUBAR.

          • lala

            if i need a pen it must be a nintendo ds ^^

          • BC Thunderthud

            Nah, I think the pen is great. Multi-touch has some cool applications
            but it took years for iOS to get any music applications that
            approached Bhajis Loops in power precisely because the finger is a
            shitty input device. And they work very differently, at least in a
            well-designed application. In practice there’s still a long way to go but it’s a great thing to have.

          • Agreed, i cant imagine people doing a very good job with staffpad using their fat digits even if you have the most ladylike hands.
            Its like comparing finger painting to calligraphy !

          • lala

            cough, how many music instruments do you play with pens? 😉
            I know of the stylophone, so thats one, lol

          • lala

            the instrument has to adapt to my abilities
            not I have to adapt to the stupid interface not constructed for the purpose 😉

          • What are you talking about?
            Judging by your display of abilities here there isn’t enough computing power in the world the adapt/help you.

          • lala

            yeah have fun with your setup and a nice day

          • Pickard

            Neil, let me tell you, _countless_ people watched Steve Jobs keynotes, enjoyed their goosebump moments of inspiration, and then they found themselves deep into this “Post-PC” enlightenment where every aspect of computing and life must be graced by the magical iPhone-like multi-touch experience (and _only_ that) to become worthy of sight, or even mention.

          • Who even mentioned playing musical instruments with pens, you are one of the strangest trolls I’ve ever come across ! – Congratulations.

          • BennyFromXXX

            Or an iPad Pro.

          • No that’s apparently a “pencil” without an eraser 😉

          • Wow talk about blinkered, you can still use a mouse if you want.
            The software works and that’s exactly what I was addressing in my first post, you seem to be strangely fixed on the use of the pan and cant move past that point, maybe a bug in the system.

          • You really dont get it do you?
            That piece of software is not designed for multi touch, its about 15 years old!
            Maybe when you have used a surface you’ll be qualified to have an opinion?

      • foljs

        “””Would like to see someone trying to run software of this age on an new Apple device!”””

        So you’d like the computing world to be held back by compatibility concerns?

        • Nope, I’m commending the ability to keep forging forward while maintaining operability whether intentional or not.

      • Tekknovator

        Spot on Neil. The MS of today is not only inventive (kinect, hololens…) but cross platform (you’ve seen the amount of devices win 10 can run on?) . Things seem to change sometimes… My zoom gfx 8 editor runs on win10, not on a mac anymore. Note to myself: I better stop posting, I start to sound like an evangelist. Should try to get pay for that 😉

    • Wow, it lives!

      Though this makes me want to see better touch support in some other apps. (Reason, for instance.)

      Curious what Reaktor will be like on this.

  • Matt Leaf

    Microsoft are so far ahead in this space. They had their troubled years while the integration took place, and now they’ve settled.

  • Matt Leaf

    Microsoft are so far ahead in this space. They had their troubled years while the integration took place, and now they’ve settled.

  • Matt Leaf

    Microsoft are so far ahead in this space. They had their troubled years while the integration took place, and now they’ve settled.

  • Yes, SUPER cool. Apple has lost it. iPad and iOS man man man… we need OSX on iPad. But they won’t and this is extremely stupid. Apple has even stated that one OS is not the way to go for them…. WTF! Apple has lost it. iPad Pro, Apple Music. What are they thinking?

    • Well, I think they’re thinking heavily optimized, heavily profitable products. 🙂

      But there’s a vulnerability here in a space where I don’t think Apple are the clear winner, absolutely.

      Let’s wait and see the software. But this is a big step.

    • foljs

      “”” Apple has lost it. iPad and iOS man man man… we need OSX on iPad. But they won’t and this is extremely stupid.”””

      Yes, because the tiny outlier niche of people with a need for a full OS on a touch tablet will by tens of millions of devices, right?

      Strange how it never worked so well for Microsoft with the Surface (they made $800 million off the Surface in the whole of 2014. Apple does that with the iPad in ten days).

      • you are right

      • Robin Parmar

        And McDonalds sells a lot of what they continue to call “food”. Last time I checked this was a blog for music professionals, not people who will buy anything just because it is thin, white, and makes them look like Big Man On Campus. Who cares about popularity contests?

  • Yes, SUPER cool. Apple has lost it. iPad and iOS man man man… we need OSX on iPad. But they won’t and this is extremely stupid. Apple has even stated that one OS is not the way to go for them…. WTF! Apple has lost it. iPad Pro, Apple Music. What are they thinking?

    • Well, I think they’re thinking heavily optimized, heavily profitable products. 🙂

      But there’s a vulnerability here in a space where I don’t think Apple are the clear winner, absolutely.

      Let’s wait and see the software. But this is a big step.

    • foljs

      “”” Apple has lost it. iPad and iOS man man man… we need OSX on iPad. But they won’t and this is extremely stupid.”””

      Yes, because the tiny outlier niche of people with a need for a full OS on a touch tablet will by tens of millions of devices, right?

      Strange how it never worked so well for Microsoft with the Surface (they made $800 million off the Surface in the whole of 2014. Apple does that with the iPad in ten days).

      • you are right

      • Robin Parmar

        And McDonalds sells a lot of what they continue to call “food”. Last time I checked this was a blog for music professionals, not people who will buy anything just because it is thin, white, and makes them look like Big Man On Campus. Who cares about popularity contests?

  • Yes, SUPER cool. Apple has lost it. iPad and iOS man man man… we need OSX on iPad. But they won’t and this is extremely stupid. Apple has even stated that one OS is not the way to go for them…. WTF! Apple has lost it. iPad Pro, Apple Music. What are they thinking?

    • Well, I think they’re thinking heavily optimized, heavily profitable products. 🙂

      But there’s a vulnerability here in a space where I don’t think Apple are the clear winner, absolutely.

      Let’s wait and see the software. But this is a big step.

    • foljs

      “”” Apple has lost it. iPad and iOS man man man… we need OSX on iPad. But they won’t and this is extremely stupid.”””

      Yes, because the tiny outlier niche of people with a need for a full OS on a touch tablet will by tens of millions of devices, right?

      Strange how it never worked so well for Microsoft with the Surface (they made $800 million off the Surface in the whole of 2014. Apple does that with the iPad in ten days).

      • you are right

      • And McDonalds sells a lot of what they continue to call “food”. Last time I checked this was a blog for music professionals, not people who will buy anything just because it is thin, white, and makes them look like Big Man On Campus. Who cares about popularity contests?

  • Lloyd Barrett

    I’ve been looking at Surface Pro’s to use with Usine Hollyhock. So far the CPU throttling has put me off. Will this one be any different?

    • Appears that way – this seems to be a standard i5/i7 chipset, minus the throttling. But I’ll check with the Bitwig devs.

  • Lloyd Barrett

    I’ve been looking at Surface Pro’s to use with Usine Hollyhock. So far the CPU throttling has put me off. Will this one be any different?

    • Appears that way – this seems to be a standard i5/i7 chipset, minus the throttling. But I’ll check with the Bitwig devs.

  • Lloyd Barrett

    I’ve been looking at Surface Pro’s to use with Usine Hollyhock. So far the CPU throttling has put me off. Will this one be any different?

    • Appears that way – this seems to be a standard i5/i7 chipset, minus the throttling. But I’ll check with the Bitwig devs.

  • But it’s not a Mac!!! How are we supposed to buy this? They told us not to!

    • Ha, well, one way to avoid it is, it is certainly pricey.

      • NRGuest

        So in other words, it’s like a Mac. 😛

        • Will

          Yep. The good Mr. Kirn nailed it in the article title. The case, the connector selection, the back-lit keys… and the price. It’s a Mac. Even the ad itself does the most epic (read: absurdly dramatic) version of “oh… one more thing”. Still classic Microsoft board-room marketing though: immediately after the “one more thing … it’s a tablet too” drop they get back to showing processors.

          I hope it sells like hotcakes and it motivates Apple to design a fix to the “lean over my keyboard with a pen” problem.

          • orpickanamo

            Funny thing is… top $2699 model (the only 16GB option) already out of stock. I caught it temporarily up for pre-order and then it’s gone again. Not sure if it’s architect firms or digital artists or engineers or electronic musicians or just rich nerd-geeks… or a combination of those.

          • Will

            I somehow doubt it’s mostly electronic musicians. 🙂 Glad to hear it’s sold out though—hopefully it lives up to or surpasses the buyers’ expectations. Wonder how many they actually had on hand.

          • orpickanamo

            Definitely not enough 16GB RAM options. One with i5, dGPU, 256GB SSD would be a much better value (should be $2099).

            The “out of stock” model is now “email me when available”. Also there’s supposed to be a 1TB SSD version but at over $3000.

        • Yermom

          Funny how that happens when you make basically the same product.

  • But it’s not a Mac!!! How are we supposed to buy this? They told us not to!

    • Ha, well, one way to avoid it is, it is certainly pricey.

      • NRGuest

        So in other words, it’s like a Mac. 😛

        • Will

          Yep. The good Mr. Kirn nailed it in the article title. The case, the connector selection, the back-lit keys… and the price. It’s a Mac. Even the ad itself does the most epic (read: absurdly dramatic) version of “oh… one more thing”. Still classic Microsoft board-room marketing though: immediately after the “one more thing … it’s a tablet too” drop they get back to showing processors.

          I hope it sells like hotcakes and it motivates Apple to design a fix to the “lean over my keyboard with a pen” problem.

          • orpickanamo

            Funny thing is… top $2699 model (the only 16GB option) already out of stock. I caught it temporarily up for pre-order and then it’s gone again. Not sure if it’s architect firms or digital artists or engineers or electronic musicians or just rich nerd-geeks… or a combination of those.

          • Will

            I somehow doubt it’s mostly electronic musicians. 🙂 Glad to hear it’s sold out though—hopefully it lives up to or surpasses the buyers’ expectations. Wonder how many they actually had on hand.

          • orpickanamo

            Definitely not enough 16GB RAM options. One with i5, dGPU, 256GB SSD would be a much better value (should be $2099).

            The “out of stock” message is now “email me when available”, and the other i7 model with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD is also out on Ms Store. Also there’s supposed to be a 1TB SSD version but at over $3000 and no ETA yet.

            Sigh. I wish I could be in USA by the end of this month.

        • Yermom

          Funny how that happens when you make basically the same product. I’ve never understood the Apple hate. They’ve always had entry level products in every line that are very competitive, but it’s gonna cost you $3K or at least $2400 on the refurb store for a beastly laptop that’s super thin, runs all day on batteries, and has absolutely the best real human hardware support of any PC.

          All that said, the visible gap between the keyboard and screen bother me. Stuff can get in there while you’re traveling.

  • But it’s not a Mac!!! How are we supposed to buy this? They told us not to!

    • Ha, well, one way to avoid it is, it is certainly pricey.

      • NRGuest

        So in other words, it’s like a Mac. 😛

        • Will

          Yep. The good Mr. Kirn nailed it in the article title. The case, the connector selection, the back-lit keys… and the price. It’s a Mac. Even the ad itself does the most epic (read: absurdly dramatic) version of “oh… one more thing”. Still classic Microsoft board-room marketing though: immediately after the “one more thing … it’s a tablet too” drop they get back to showing processors.

          I hope it sells like hotcakes and it motivates Apple to design a fix to the “lean over my keyboard with a pen” problem.

          • Pickard

            Funny thing is… top $2699 model (the only 16GB option) already out of stock. I caught it temporarily up for pre-order and then it’s gone again. Not sure if it’s architect firms or digital artists or engineers or electronic musicians or just rich nerd-geeks… or a combination of those.

          • Will

            I somehow doubt it’s mostly electronic musicians. 🙂 Glad to hear it’s sold out though—hopefully it lives up to or surpasses the buyers’ expectations. Wonder how many they actually had on hand.

          • Pickard

            Definitely not enough 16GB RAM options. One with i5, dGPU, 256GB SSD would be a much better value (should be $2099).

            The “out of stock” message is now “email me when available”, and the other i7 model with 8GB RAM and 256GB SSD is also out on Ms Store. Also there’s supposed to be a 1TB SSD version but at over $3000 and no ETA yet.

            Sigh. I wish I could be in USA by the end of this month.

        • Yermom

          Funny how that happens when you make basically the same product. I’ve never understood the Apple hate. They’ve always had entry level products in every line that are very competitive, but it’s gonna cost you $3K or at least $2400 on the refurb store for a beastly laptop that’s super thin, runs all day on batteries, and has absolutely the best real human hardware support of any PC.

          All that said, the visible gap between the keyboard and screen bother me. Stuff can get in there while you’re traveling.

  • Ashley Scott

    umm, this sounds a lot like the 13″ tablet laptop I have already. The screen is nice but the software (ie Ableton, Machine) are not at all ‘touch-enabled’ (they have never claimed to be) & response to fingertip/stylus is a pretty mixed bag. Does this machine have new-improved touch interface that suddenly makes everything ‘just work’?

  • Ashley Scott

    umm, this sounds a lot like the 13″ tablet laptop I have already. The screen is nice but the software (ie Ableton, Machine) are not at all ‘touch-enabled’ (they have never claimed to be) & response to fingertip/stylus is a pretty mixed bag. Does this machine have new-improved touch interface that suddenly makes everything ‘just work’?

  • Ashley Scott

    umm, this sounds a lot like the 13″ tablet laptop I have already. The screen is nice but the software (ie Ableton, Machine) are not at all ‘touch-enabled’ (they have never claimed to be) & response to fingertip/stylus is a pretty mixed bag. Does this machine have new-improved touch interface that suddenly makes everything ‘just work’?

  • heinrich zwahlen

    I’m going to skip the pricey ipad pro for now and get an air 2, so i can run all those great ios apps with low latency along with Ableton in my macbook pro, The great thing of ios vs this windows machine is the huge amount of great and inexpensive music apps available to run on an 499 ipad vs what music software exactly do you have for this machine at a similar price point? Not so much i guess..therefore it’s about having access to lot’s inexpensive software and not about the hardware for me, as much as i would love to have a touch screen macbook.

  • heinrich zwahlen

    I’m going to skip the pricey ipad pro for now and get an air 2, so i can run all those great ios apps with low latency along with Ableton in my macbook pro, The great thing of ios vs this windows machine is the huge amount of great and inexpensive music apps available to run on an 499 ipad vs what music software exactly do you have for this machine at a similar price point? Not so much i guess..therefore it’s about having access to lot’s inexpensive software and not about the hardware for me, as much as i would love to have a touch screen macbook.

  • heinrich zwahlen

    I’m going to skip the pricey ipad pro for now and get an air 2, so i can run all those great ios apps with low latency along with Ableton in my macbook pro, The great thing of ios vs this windows machine is the huge amount of great and inexpensive music apps available to run on an 499 ipad vs what music software exactly do you have for this machine at a similar price point? Not so much i guess..therefore it’s about having access to lot’s inexpensive software and not about the hardware for me, as much as i would love to have a touch screen macbook.

  • bromotocross

    I never got why someone would want this, especially for music. First I am not an apple guy no Ipad, I have a android pad but don’t use it much. Hp sells a 17.3″ envy touchscreen laptop for $999, Fully loaded for $1399 with I7-6700m and Nv 950 4g discreet video chip 16gb ram, 3d real sense cam dual digital stereo microphones, finger print reader, 1tb hard drive DVD drive to write your music or video to cd additional drive bay for ssd or hard drive. This is quite portable with long battery and you can get an extra battery. Is it pocketable? No but my android phone is and is a controller over wifi. Is it highly portable like a tablet no but if using touchscreen as controller, the bigger surface the better, especially for fat fingered people. I use FL studio which does use touchscreen and multi gestures. Maybe even someday the intel 3d real sense camera will be used as a controller. This makes more sense for me and the way I write music. The reviewed tablet is too limiting and too big to be pocketable and is very limited as a laptop compared to this HP. But that is just me and the way I work.

    • BC Thunderthud

      I think it’s a bit more compelling for visual stuff, I have a Surface Pro 2 and the pen is a really nice thing to have, but it’s a bit too small to take much advantage of it, this would be fantastic for Painter and replace any laptop. Audio apps work well enough on the Surface but again they don’t necessarily scale to a small screen very well. I don’t agree however that this is more limited than your HP, it’s just maybe not worth the extra cost if you’re not going to use the tablet features. If Ableton were to come out with a scale-able, touch enabled version it would be a huge boost but since they have such a large Apple user base it probably won’t ever be a priority. Bitwig and Studio One seem to be on the case but I don’t think that’s going to drive a lot of sales.

      • bromotocross

        The pen is nice for Painter but a waco tablet connected to the laptop that has 17.3″ would be better I think but not as portable. Remember you can purchase a pen for the HP laptop. The HP basically blows the doors of this computer. at $1499 on the surface you get an I5 and 128gb hard drive and no gpu. The HP has gpu, 1tb hard drive with extra bay, and I7 quad core and the battery and power supply to push gpu/cpu to top speed. You need a fan to do that, the gpu along under stress by itself will push the heat, but add to that a bunch of vsts running. The HP will have much more power as the microsoft unit will slow the processor to keep it cool. Fl Studio is very impressive on a laptop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI43L1Gp9uw There are even demos on the surface which are equally impressive.. The surface is much more limited in every way including power, but if portability is what you seek then this might be it for you. The 17.3″ works better for these old eyes and fat fingers. The HP also can have a pen and uses a capacitance 10 point multi touch screen.

        • Klrxs

          The HP is still restrained to being a laptop only. It’s heavier and the keyboard is permanently in the way. The touchscreen works but is not the exact same type of touch surface as more tablet-shaped glassier options. It feels more like a laptop so it must have the screen upright with a keyboard. You’re better off using it Like a laptop. A laptop without touch and considerable specs is easy to find at a good price.

          When you introduce touch, you need the appropriate ergonomics. Either something on a lap or table, held with one hand, or at a very slight angle up. Portability is also a huuuge factor. I own a 17″ touch Envy. Works great. But I’m not likely to move it around nearly as much as I would a 13″ ‘tablet’ format.

          Using something like an android or iPad as a satellite control is not nearly the same as having the entirety of the OS immediately at your fingertips. There are always trade-offs.

          The biggest thing hurting windows right now is app development. Most of the apps and the touch response with the apps, the fluidity, just flat out suck. My iPad gets way more use because it is portable, powerful, and feels natural to touch with solid developers.

          This new surface book looks very tempting to me 🙂

          • bromotocross

            I agree, a touchscreen is not necessary on a laptop for music creation but in the HP world it is only $100 dollars more for the touch screen laptop and it is very nice and works well as you see in the demo above.. As far as moving around, when I am creating music, most often I am tied to a least a 49 key keyboard more often larger. Depends on the type of music. You can get away with a small controller when doing electronic music but you are still not portable.

            I have a difficult time creating music with a pad device. It does not have enough power. Does Ipad run Ableton live? No. But it does run FL Studio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q-AoN2q9qE But again, this is a limited version with limited sounds and vst’s (Android version as well). You could not create a complex creation on this. if you try to record a piano using two hands again you are tied to a midi/usb keyboard limiting mobility. The only advantage is that you could create your basic song and transfer it to a computer for true vst, fx, and capability.

            So for music creation, The Ipad is at the bottom of the list and is expensive. The HP laptop is at the top of the list for power and low price. If I were a pad guy I would probably get the surface. It is a full functioning laptop that would play any music creation software, vst, fx and such, but it is expensive and to get any storage on it you are going to pay big bucks.

            But as I said before. If portability is your gig and being able to run a full fledged music software computer The Surface is a great choice. Apple does not have it.

            Now for web/photo/social media browsing, sure, an Ipad is great. But if you need that portability and want power to run real programs then I like this better. Apps are a mere shadow of a real program run on a real computer and are very limited. I would edit my photos in photoshop on a computer, not an Ipad. I would create music on a computer instead of an Ipad. The Microsoft option can do both well, The more I see the more I like it. And the more options people have the more people will figure out you don’t have to be stuck with apple and itunes.

  • bromotocross

    I never got why someone would want this, especially for music. First I am not an apple guy no Ipad, I have a android pad but don’t use it much. Hp sells a 17.3″ envy touchscreen laptop for $999, Fully loaded for $1399 with I7-6700m and Nv 950 4g discreet video chip 16gb ram, 3d real sense cam dual digital stereo microphones, finger print reader, 1tb hard drive DVD drive to write your music or video to cd additional drive bay for ssd or hard drive. This is quite portable with long battery and you can get an extra battery. Is it pocketable? No but my android phone is and is a controller over wifi. Is it highly portable like a tablet no but if using touchscreen as controller, the bigger surface the better, especially for fat fingered people. I use FL studio which does use touchscreen and multi gestures. Maybe even someday the intel 3d real sense camera will be used as a controller. This makes more sense for me and the way I write music. The reviewed tablet is too limiting and too big to be pocketable and is very limited as a laptop compared to this HP. But that is just me and the way I work.

    • BC Thunderthud

      I think it’s a bit more compelling for visual stuff, I have a Surface Pro 2 and the pen is a really nice thing to have, but it’s a bit too small to take much advantage of it, this would be fantastic for Painter and replace any laptop. Audio apps work well enough on the Surface but again they don’t necessarily scale to a small screen very well. I don’t agree however that this is more limited than your HP, it’s just maybe not worth the extra cost if you’re not going to use the tablet features. If Ableton were to come out with a scale-able, touch enabled version it would be a huge boost but since they have such a large Apple user base it probably won’t ever be a priority. Bitwig and Studio One seem to be on the case but I don’t think that’s going to drive a lot of sales.

      • bromotocross

        The pen is nice for Painter but a waco tablet connected to the laptop that has 17.3″ would be better I think but not as portable. Remember you can purchase a pen for the HP laptop. The HP basically blows the doors of this computer. at $1499 on the surface you get an I5 and 128gb hard drive and no gpu. The HP has gpu, 1tb hard drive with extra bay, and I7 quad core and the battery and power supply to push gpu/cpu to top speed. You need a fan to do that, the gpu along under stress by itself will push the heat, but add to that a bunch of vsts running. The HP will have much more power as the microsoft unit will slow the processor to keep it cool. Fl Studio is very impressive on a laptop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI43L1Gp9uw There are even demos on the surface which are equally impressive.. The surface is much more limited in every way including power, but if portability is what you seek then this might be it for you. The 17.3″ works better for these old eyes and fat fingers. The HP also can have a pen and uses a capacitance 10 point multi touch screen.

        • Klrxs

          The HP is still restrained to being a laptop only. It’s heavier and the keyboard is permanently in the way. The touchscreen works but is not the exact same type of touch surface as more tablet-shaped glassier options. It feels more like a laptop so it must have the screen upright with a keyboard. You’re better off using it Like a laptop. A laptop without touch and considerable specs is easy to find at a good price.

          When you introduce touch, you need the appropriate ergonomics. Either something on a lap or table, held with one hand, or at a very slight angle up. Portability is also a huuuge factor. I own a 17″ touch Envy. Works great. But I’m not likely to move it around nearly as much as I would a 13″ ‘tablet’ format.

          Using something like an android or iPad as a satellite control is not nearly the same as having the entirety of the OS immediately at your fingertips. There are always trade-offs.

          The biggest thing hurting windows right now is app development. Most of the apps and the touch response with the apps, the fluidity, just flat out suck. My iPad gets way more use because it is portable, powerful, and feels natural to touch with solid developers.

          This new surface book looks very tempting to me 🙂

          • bromotocross

            I agree, a touchscreen is not necessary on a laptop for music creation but in the HP world it is only $100 dollars more for the touch screen laptop and it is very nice and works well as you see in the demo above.. As far as moving around, when I am creating music, most often I am tied to a least a 49 key keyboard more often larger. Depends on the type of music. You can get away with a small controller when doing electronic music but you are still not portable.

            I have a difficult time creating music with a pad device. It does not have enough power. Does Ipad run Ableton live? No. But it does run FL Studio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q-AoN2q9qE But again, this is a limited version with limited sounds and vst’s (Android version as well). You could not create a complex creation on this. if you try to record a piano using two hands again you are tied to a midi/usb keyboard limiting mobility. The only advantage is that you could create your basic song and transfer it to a computer for true vst, fx, and capability.

            So for music creation, The Ipad is at the bottom of the list and is expensive. The HP laptop is at the top of the list for power and low price. If I were a pad guy I would probably get the surface. It is a full functioning laptop that would play any music creation software, vst, fx and such, but it is expensive and to get any storage on it you are going to pay big bucks.

            But as I said before. If portability is your gig and being able to run a full fledged music software computer The Surface is a great choice. Apple does not have it.

            Now for web/photo/social media browsing, sure, an Ipad is great. But if you need that portability and want power to run real programs then I like this better. Apps are a mere shadow of a real program run on a real computer and are very limited. I would edit my photos in photoshop on a computer, not an Ipad. I would create music on a computer instead of an Ipad. The Microsoft option can do both well, The more I see the more I like it. And the more options people have the more people will figure out you don’t have to be stuck with apple and itunes.

  • bromotocross

    I never got why someone would want this, especially for music. First I am not an apple guy no Ipad, I have a android pad but don’t use it much. Hp sells a 17.3″ envy touchscreen laptop for $999, Fully loaded for $1399 with I7-6700m and Nv 950 4g discreet video chip 16gb ram, 3d real sense cam dual digital stereo microphones, finger print reader, 1tb hard drive DVD drive to write your music or video to cd additional drive bay for ssd or hard drive. This is quite portable with long battery and you can get an extra battery. Is it pocketable? No but my android phone is and is a controller over wifi. Is it highly portable like a tablet no but if using touchscreen as controller, the bigger surface the better, especially for fat fingered people. I use FL studio which does use touchscreen and multi gestures. Maybe even someday the intel 3d real sense camera will be used as a controller. This makes more sense for me and the way I write music. The reviewed tablet is too limiting and too big to be pocketable and is very limited as a laptop compared to this HP. But that is just me and the way I work.

    • BC Thunderthud

      I think it’s a bit more compelling for visual stuff, I have a Surface Pro 2 and the pen is a really nice thing to have, but it’s a bit too small to take much advantage of it, this would be fantastic for Painter and replace any laptop. Audio apps work well enough on the Surface but again they don’t necessarily scale to a small screen very well. I don’t agree however that this is more limited than your HP, it’s just maybe not worth the extra cost if you’re not going to use the tablet features. If Ableton were to come out with a scale-able, touch enabled version it would be a huge boost but since they have such a large Apple user base it probably won’t ever be a priority. Bitwig and Studio One seem to be on the case but I don’t think that’s going to drive a lot of sales.

      • bromotocross

        The pen is nice for Painter but a waco tablet connected to the laptop that has 17.3″ would be better I think but not as portable. Remember you can purchase a pen for the HP laptop. The HP basically blows the doors of this computer. at $1499 on the surface you get an I5 and 128gb hard drive and no gpu. The HP has gpu, 1tb hard drive with extra bay, and I7 quad core and the battery and power supply to push gpu/cpu to top speed. You need a fan to do that, the gpu along under stress by itself will push the heat, but add to that a bunch of vsts running. The HP will have much more power as the microsoft unit will slow the processor to keep it cool. Fl Studio is very impressive on a laptop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI43L1Gp9uw There are even demos on the surface which are equally impressive.. The surface is much more limited in every way including power, but if portability is what you seek then this might be it for you. The 17.3″ works better for these old eyes and fat fingers. The HP also can have a pen and uses a capacitance 10 point multi touch screen.

        • Klrxs

          The HP is still restrained to being a laptop only. It’s heavier and the keyboard is permanently in the way. The touchscreen works but is not the exact same type of touch surface as more tablet-shaped glassier options. It feels more like a laptop so it must have the screen upright with a keyboard. You’re better off using it Like a laptop. A laptop without touch and considerable specs is easy to find at a good price.

          When you introduce touch, you need the appropriate ergonomics. Either something on a lap or table, held with one hand, or at a very slight angle up. Portability is also a huuuge factor. I own a 17″ touch Envy. Works great. But I’m not likely to move it around nearly as much as I would a 13″ ‘tablet’ format.

          Using something like an android or iPad as a satellite control is not nearly the same as having the entirety of the OS immediately at your fingertips. There are always trade-offs.

          The biggest thing hurting windows right now is app development. Most of the apps and the touch response with the apps, the fluidity, just flat out suck. My iPad gets way more use because it is portable, powerful, and feels natural to touch with solid developers.

          This new surface book looks very tempting to me 🙂

          • bromotocross

            I agree, a touchscreen is not necessary on a laptop for music creation but in the HP world it is only $100 dollars more for the touch screen laptop and it is very nice and works well as you see in the demo above.. As far as moving around, when I am creating music, most often I am tied to a least a 49 key keyboard more often larger. Depends on the type of music. You can get away with a small controller when doing electronic music but you are still not portable.

            I have a difficult time creating music with a pad device. It does not have enough power. Does Ipad run Ableton live? No. But it does run FL Studio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q-AoN2q9qE But again, this is a limited version with limited sounds and vst’s (Android version as well). You could not create a complex creation on this. if you try to record a piano using two hands again you are tied to a midi/usb keyboard limiting mobility. The only advantage is that you could create your basic song and transfer it to a computer for true vst, fx, and capability.

            So for music creation, The Ipad is at the bottom of the list and is expensive. The HP laptop is at the top of the list for power and low price. If I were a pad guy I would probably get the surface. It is a full functioning laptop that would play any music creation software, vst, fx and such, but it is expensive and to get any storage on it you are going to pay big bucks.

            But as I said before. If portability is your gig and being able to run a full fledged music software computer The Surface is a great choice. Apple does not have it.

            Now for web/photo/social media browsing, sure, an Ipad is great. But if you need that portability and want power to run real programs then I like this better. Apps are a mere shadow of a real program run on a real computer and are very limited. I would edit my photos in photoshop on a computer, not an Ipad. I would create music on a computer instead of an Ipad. The Microsoft option can do both well, The more I see the more I like it. And the more options people have the more people will figure out you don’t have to be stuck with apple and itunes.

  • Samuél J

    This issue with Microsoft is they are going to screw up time and time again. The creative industry market needs a stable platform that doesn’t chew up all your energy trouble shooting to get working. MAC has become king due to its stability and Ease of use. The UNIX platform has always been far superior to Windows. The future may indeed see change but at current Windows is a business platform and Mac is a creative platform.

    • chaircrusher

      Um, did you copy that comment from 2002?

      • MS-DOS-compatible computers are the future, even with all the Apple //e expansion possibilities.

        I feel like this Atari thing might yield a good DAW or two, though, somehow…

        Anyway, back to UNIX for me.

        • chaircrusher

          Don’t have time to google it all but I think you have a Caveman-hunting-dinosaur problem somewhere in this comment.

    • orpickanamo

      “at current Windows is a business platform and Mac is a creative platform.”

      The “current” is already challenged. Heavily.

      Microsoft are going for the creatives and Apple is busy with consumer-class iPhones and iPads. Mac doesn’t even have native multitouch and pen support at this point, which is baffling. DAWs are going multiplatform, that’s the trend I’m seeing more and more.

      _If_ Win10 finally delivers on their “pro audio” support promises (“catching up to OS X/Core Audio” bits), then it’d be pretty much a complete sweep on all creative fronts (with 3D, CAD, VR/HoloLens already their stronghold). Of course Apple can sit on their laurels believing that the perception “Apple = Creative” holds for eternity. Or do something beter.

      Btw, stability has never been a problem the 5+ years I used Windows 7. More than 98% time I’d spend in the applications anyway, not the OS.

  • Samuél J

    This issue with Microsoft is they are going to screw up time and time again. The creative industry market needs a stable platform that doesn’t chew up all your energy trouble shooting to get working. MAC has become king due to its stability and Ease of use. The UNIX platform has always been far superior to Windows. The future may indeed see change but at current Windows is a business platform and Mac is a creative platform.

    • chaircrusher

      Um, did you copy that comment from 2002?

      • MS-DOS-compatible computers are the future, even with all the Apple //e expansion possibilities.

        I feel like this Atari thing might yield a good DAW or two, though, somehow…

        Anyway, back to UNIX for me.

        • chaircrusher

          Don’t have time to google it all but I think you have a Caveman-hunting-dinosaur problem somewhere in this comment.

    • orpickanamo

      “at current Windows is a business platform and Mac is a creative platform.”

      The “current” is already challenged. Heavily.

      Microsoft is going for the creatives and Apple is busy with consumer-class iPhones and iPads and now iWatches. Mac doesn’t even have native multitouch and pen support at this point, which is baffling. DAWs are going multiplatform, that’s the trend I’m seeing more and more.

      _If_ Win10 finally delivers on their “pro audio” support promises (“catching up to OS X/Core Audio” bits), then it’d be pretty much a complete sweep on all creative fronts (with 3D, CAD, VR/HoloLens already their stronghold). Of course Apple can sit on their laurels believing that the perception “Apple = Creative” holds for eternity. Or do something better.

      Btw, stability has never been a problem the 5+ years I used Windows 7. More than 98% time I’d spend in the applications anyway, not the OS.

  • Samuél J

    This issue with Microsoft is they are going to screw up time and time again. The creative industry market needs a stable platform that doesn’t chew up all your energy trouble shooting to get working. MAC has become king due to its stability and Ease of use. The UNIX platform has always been far superior to Windows. The future may indeed see change but at current Windows is a business platform and Mac is a creative platform.

    • chaircrusher

      Um, did you copy that comment from 2002?

      • MS-DOS-compatible computers are the future, even with all the Apple //e expansion possibilities.

        I feel like this Atari thing might yield a good DAW or two, though, somehow…

        Anyway, back to UNIX for me.

        • chaircrusher

          Don’t have time to google it all but I think you have a Caveman-hunting-dinosaur problem somewhere in this comment.

    • Pickard

      “at current Windows is a business platform and Mac is a creative platform.”

      The “current” is already challenged. Heavily.

      Microsoft is going for the creatives and Apple is busy with consumer-class iPhones and iPads and now iWatches. Mac doesn’t even have native multitouch and pen support at this point, which is baffling. DAWs are going multiplatform, that’s the trend I’m seeing more and more.

      _If_ Win10 finally delivers on their “pro audio” support promises (“catching up to OS X/Core Audio” bits), then it’d be pretty much a complete sweep on all creative fronts (with 3D, CAD, VR/HoloLens already their stronghold). Of course Apple can sit on their laurels believing that the perception “Apple = Creative” holds for eternity. Or do something better.

      Btw, stability has never been a problem the 5+ years I used Windows 7. More than 98% time I’d spend in the applications anyway, not the OS.

  • Zack Haigh

    The controller is sideways because every vertical fader becomes a crossfader. Totally a legit way to mix on an apc40

    • What do you do with 8 crossfaders? (no, I do not want to troll – I am genuinely interested.)

  • Zack Haigh

    The controller is sideways because every vertical fader becomes a crossfader. Totally a legit way to mix on an apc40

    • What do you do with 8 crossfaders? (no, I do not want to troll – I am genuinely interested.)

  • Zack Haigh

    The controller is sideways because every vertical fader becomes a crossfader. Totally a legit way to mix on an apc40

    • What do you do with 8 crossfaders? (no, I do not want to troll – I am genuinely interested.)

  • estevan

    I need to know more about the GPU!

    • leolodreamland

      it’s got one

  • estevan

    I need to know more about the GPU!

    • leolodreamland

      it’s got one

  • estevan

    I need to know more about the GPU!

    • leolodreamland

      it’s got one

  • Polite Society

    Did they ever fix the pen on the surface pro 2 onwards?
    One of the reasons I bought a pro 1 was to use it as a graphics tablet, and the tracking of the pen makes it pretty awful for this.

    • FireLord

      Watch the videos, wait for the review. It has 1024 pressure point .

      • DPrty

        If it will double as a graphics tablet the price becomes reasonable for me.

  • Polite Society

    Did they ever fix the pen on the surface pro 2 onwards?
    One of the reasons I bought a pro 1 was to use it as a graphics tablet, and the tracking of the pen makes it pretty awful for this.

    • FireLord

      Watch the videos, wait for the review. It has 1024 pressure point .

      • DPrty

        If it will double as a graphics tablet the price becomes reasonable for me.

  • Polite Society

    Did they ever fix the pen on the surface pro 2 onwards?
    One of the reasons I bought a pro 1 was to use it as a graphics tablet, and the tracking of the pen makes it pretty awful for this.

    • FireLord

      Watch the videos, wait for the review. It has 1024 pressure point .

      • DPrty

        If it will double as a graphics tablet the price becomes reasonable for me.

  • 1948

    The big problem with this thing is….Windows 10, wich outdoes Google when it comes to violating your privacy. It practically sends EVERY thing you do on it to Microsoft’s servers ( even Google didn’t dare go that far ), and you can’t turn that off. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/

    Tha fact that no one cares one bit about this is frightening, and saddening.

    • I thought almost exactly the same. Yes, it looks like an interesting proposition, technically. It even looks somewhat nice aesthetically (especially that hinge is a nice detail.) But… it runs Windows…

      • Kim Åke

        Hmm that means that you cant´t install Linux on it? I recently moved to KXStudio, and everything seems pretty sweet with Bitwig at least so far…

        • No, it doesn’t mean that and I did not intend to hint that either. But how many people in this business are actually using Linux for making music with a DAW? Yes, quite some few. But in comparison to OSX and Windows users? Probably close to none. And how many do you think would really bother actively throwing out the pre installed Windows and make it a Linux device? Not so many either, most likely.

          I appreciate that you are happy with your setup, but you can agree that it remains a niche activity until further, can’t you?

          P.S. My point was intended to be a personal opinion about how hideous I find the Windows UI/UX compared to e.g. OSX. I did not want to discuss Linux issues.

          • Popo Bawa

            Must be the kind of “probability” based upon the math of “none of my friends do it”?

            I am not likely to buy one of these, but my first questions are also about how polite a host M$ hardware is for other operating systems. FWIW I have music systems running MacOS, Windows, and Linux.

          • Phobot

            Linux is actually fantastic for making music, apart from all the software synths and trackers/DAWS out there, Jack makes routing of different sound sources / midi devices a lot simpler. It just takes awhile to get things set up. The Ubuntu studio distro is a good place to start for the curious. And it’s all free. I sold my MacBook Air and now have a fully working studio setup on an old pentium 4 laptop. If you’re on a budget it’s a smart move

    • FireLord

      1948 Called they want their tin foil hat back.

      • 2048

        yes I’m sure the people at Ars technica, Zdnet, NetWork Security, etc.. were wearing nothing but tinfoil hats while writing their articles. Thank you for pointing that out.

      • Graham Metcalfe

        1984?

    • Popo Bawa

      Isn’t this partly what firewalls are for?

      I agree that it’s lame of them, but I suspect that the infringing stuff can eventually be switched off. IMO it’s crazy to trust one’s security to the OS, in any case.

  • 1948

    The big problem with this thing is….Windows 10, wich outdoes Google when it comes to violating your privacy. It practically sends EVERY thing you do on it to Microsoft’s servers ( even Google didn’t dare go that far ), and you can’t turn that off. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/

    Tha fact that no one cares one bit about this is frightening, and saddening.

    • I thought almost exactly the same. Yes, it looks like an interesting proposition, technically. It even looks somewhat nice aesthetically (especially that hinge is a nice detail.) But… it runs Windows…

      • Kim Åke

        Hmm that means that you cant´t install Linux on it? I recently moved to KXStudio, and everything seems pretty sweet with Bitwig at least so far…

        • No, it doesn’t mean that and I did not intend to hint that either. But how many people in this business are actually using Linux for making music with a DAW? Yes, quite some few. But in comparison to OSX and Windows users? Probably close to none. And how many do you think would really bother actively throwing out the pre installed Windows and make it a Linux device? Not so many either, most likely.

          I appreciate that you are happy with your setup, but you can agree that it remains a niche activity until further, can’t you?

          P.S. My point was intended to be a personal opinion about how hideous I find the Windows UI/UX compared to e.g. OSX. I did not want to discuss Linux issues.

          • Popo Bawa

            Must be the kind of “probability” based upon the math of “none of my friends do it”?

            I am not likely to buy one of these, but my first questions are also about how polite a host M$ hardware is for other operating systems. FWIW I have music systems running MacOS, Windows, and Linux.

          • Phobot

            Linux is actually fantastic for making music, apart from all the software synths and trackers/DAWS out there, Jack makes routing of different sound sources / midi devices a lot simpler. It just takes awhile to get things set up. The Ubuntu studio distro is a good place to start for the curious. And it’s all free. I sold my MacBook Air and now have a fully working studio setup on an old pentium 4 laptop. If you’re on a budget it’s a smart move

    • FireLord

      1948 Called they want their tin foil hat back.

      • 2048

        yes I’m sure the people at Ars technica, Zdnet, NetWork Security, etc.. were wearing nothing but tinfoil hats while writing their articles. Thank you for pointing that out.

      • Graham Metcalfe

        1984?

    • Popo Bawa

      Isn’t this partly what firewalls are for?

      I agree that it’s lame of them, but I suspect that the infringing stuff can eventually be switched off. IMO it’s crazy to trust one’s security to the OS, in any case.

  • 1948

    The big problem with this thing is….Windows 10, wich outdoes Google when it comes to violating your privacy. It practically sends EVERY thing you do on it to Microsoft’s servers ( even Google didn’t dare go that far ), and you can’t turn that off. http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/

    Tha fact that no one cares one bit about this is frightening, and saddening.

    • I thought almost exactly the same. Yes, it looks like an interesting proposition, technically. It even looks somewhat nice aesthetically (especially that hinge is a nice detail.) But… it runs Windows…

      • Kim Åke

        Hmm that means that you cant´t install Linux on it? I recently moved to KXStudio, and everything seems pretty sweet with Bitwig at least so far…

        • No, it doesn’t mean that and I did not intend to hint that either. But how many people in this business are actually using Linux for making music with a DAW? Yes, quite some few. But in comparison to OSX and Windows users? Probably close to none. And how many do you think would really bother actively throwing out the pre installed Windows and make it a Linux device? Not so many either, most likely.

          I appreciate that you are happy with your setup, but you can agree that it remains a niche activity until further, can’t you?

          P.S. My point was intended to be a personal opinion about how hideous I find the Windows UI/UX compared to e.g. OSX. I did not want to discuss Linux issues.

          • Popo Bawa

            Must be the kind of “probability” based upon the math of “none of my friends do it”?

            I am not likely to buy one of these, but my first questions are also about how polite a host M$ hardware is for other operating systems. FWIW I have music systems running MacOS, Windows, and Linux.

          • Phobot

            Linux is actually fantastic for making music, apart from all the software synths and trackers/DAWS out there, Jack makes routing of different sound sources / midi devices a lot simpler. It just takes awhile to get things set up. The Ubuntu studio distro is a good place to start for the curious. And it’s all free. I sold my MacBook Air and now have a fully working studio setup on an old pentium 4 laptop. If you’re on a budget it’s a smart move

    • FireLord

      1948 Called they want their tin foil hat back.

      • 2048

        yes I’m sure the people at Ars technica, Zdnet, NetWork Security, etc.. were wearing nothing but tinfoil hats while writing their articles. Thank you for pointing that out.

      • Graham Metcalfe

        1984?

    • Popo Bawa

      Isn’t this partly what firewalls are for?

      I agree that it’s lame of them, but I suspect that the infringing stuff can eventually be switched off. IMO it’s crazy to trust one’s security to the OS, in any case.

  • Martin Wheeler

    It’s all about ‘convergence’, but before the experience of doing everything on one ‘converged’ platform becomes superior to having multiple machines for multiple uses, the whole Apps+OS+Hardware+Peripherals ecosystems need to do a whole lot more “converging”.
    And while Bitwig 1.3 yesterday, (and to a lesser extent) this today are signs of that process, it seems to me that a comprehensive, _superior_ converged solution is still a way off …
    Some people complain about the iPadPro not running OSX because they imagine running Ableton on it, but running the current Ableton on a hacked-for-iPad OSX would be an absolute nightmare, both the App and the OS really need to be comprehensively rethought for the specificity of the platform.
    IMHO It’s not there yet, but I am sure that this will all come reasonably soon. Apps and OS’s will quickly evolve as pressure-sensitive multitouch screens become the norm ( on our way to those Minority Report interfaces we are all waiting for 😉 ) … though from my perspective the touchscreens ( whether they contain the computer – that is, are tablets – or are just simple peripherals ) will need to be a good bit bigger than either this or the iPadPro before they become serious contenders for studio work.

    For the moment I can imagine that for someone who spends significantly more of their time playing live / “on the road” ( as opposed to those, like myself, who spend the majority of their time “at home /in the studio”) something like this Microsoft thing plus Bitwig could be an interesting compromise.
    As for me, I’ll buy the iPadPro, complain that it is too expensive, complain that it it is too small, and also too big 😉 and use it (as I do now with my iPad) for pretty much everything that isn’t making music, (and for multitouch specific music / audio apps)
    …. and then go into my studio and make music with Ableton, Max, VEP 5, Komplete Kontrol, a whole mass of plugins and utility apps, ( none of which run on iOS or Android, and none of which are currently touch-savvy) on a big fat very unportable desktop machine crammed with CPU, RAM, SSDs,hard drives, with a whole kaboodle of peripherals, audio interfaces, keyboards, controllers, etc hanging off it, and several big-ass screens, 4 in my case, for max screen real estate for all that software.
    Hopefully some of these screens will be replaced by multitouch screens quite soon, as the applications and OS transition to intelligently support multitouch, but for the moment, from my point of view, “the great convergence” is very appealling, but still some way away.

  • Martin Wheeler

    It’s all about ‘convergence’, but before the experience of doing everything on one ‘converged’ platform becomes superior to having multiple machines for multiple uses, the whole Apps+OS+Hardware+Peripherals ecosystems need to do a whole lot more “converging”.
    And while Bitwig 1.3 yesterday, (and to a lesser extent) this today are signs of that process, it seems to me that a comprehensive, _superior_ converged solution is still a way off …
    Some people complain about the iPadPro not running OSX because they imagine running Ableton on it, but running the current Ableton on a hacked-for-iPad OSX would be an absolute nightmare, both the App and the OS really need to be comprehensively rethought for the specificity of the platform.
    IMHO It’s not there yet, but I am sure that this will all come reasonably soon. Apps and OS’s will quickly evolve as pressure-sensitive multitouch screens become the norm ( on our way to those Minority Report interfaces we are all waiting for 😉 ) … though from my perspective the touchscreens ( whether they contain the computer – that is, are tablets – or are just simple peripherals ) will need to be a good bit bigger than either this or the iPadPro before they become serious contenders for studio work.

    For the moment I can imagine that for someone who spends significantly more of their time playing live / “on the road” ( as opposed to those, like myself, who spend the majority of their time “at home /in the studio”) something like this Microsoft thing plus Bitwig could be an interesting compromise.
    As for me, I’ll buy the iPadPro, complain that it is too expensive, complain that it it is too small, and also too big 😉 and use it (as I do now with my iPad) for pretty much everything that isn’t making music, (and for multitouch specific music / audio apps)
    …. and then go into my studio and make music with Ableton, Max, VEP 5, Komplete Kontrol, a whole mass of plugins and utility apps, ( none of which run on iOS or Android, and none of which are currently touch-savvy) on a big fat very unportable desktop machine crammed with CPU, RAM, SSDs,hard drives, with a whole kaboodle of peripherals, audio interfaces, keyboards, controllers, etc hanging off it, and several big-ass screens, 4 in my case, for max screen real estate for all that software.
    Hopefully some of these screens will be replaced by multitouch screens quite soon, as the applications and OS transition to intelligently support multitouch, but for the moment, from my point of view, “the great convergence” is very appealling, but still some way away.

  • Martin Wheeler

    It’s all about ‘convergence’, but before the experience of doing everything on one ‘converged’ platform becomes superior to having multiple machines for multiple uses, the whole Apps+OS+Hardware+Peripherals ecosystems need to do a whole lot more “converging”.
    And while Bitwig 1.3 yesterday, (and to a lesser extent) this today are signs of that process, it seems to me that a comprehensive, _superior_ converged solution is still a way off …
    Some people complain about the iPadPro not running OSX because they imagine running Ableton on it, but running the current Ableton on a hacked-for-iPad OSX would be an absolute nightmare, both the App and the OS really need to be comprehensively rethought for the specificity of the platform.
    IMHO It’s not there yet, but I am sure that this will all come reasonably soon. Apps and OS’s will quickly evolve as pressure-sensitive multitouch screens become the norm ( on our way to those Minority Report interfaces we are all waiting for 😉 ) … though from my perspective the touchscreens ( whether they contain the computer – that is, are tablets – or are just simple peripherals ) will need to be a good bit bigger than either this or the iPadPro before they become serious contenders for studio work.

    For the moment I can imagine that for someone who spends significantly more of their time playing live / “on the road” ( as opposed to those, like myself, who spend the majority of their time “at home /in the studio”) something like this Microsoft thing plus Bitwig could be an interesting compromise.
    As for me, I’ll buy the iPadPro, complain that it is too expensive, complain that it it is too small, and also too big 😉 and use it (as I do now with my iPad) for pretty much everything that isn’t making music, (and for multitouch specific music / audio apps)
    …. and then go into my studio and make music with Ableton, Max, VEP 5, Komplete Kontrol, a whole mass of plugins and utility apps, ( none of which run on iOS or Android, and none of which are currently touch-savvy) on a big fat very unportable desktop machine crammed with CPU, RAM, SSDs,hard drives, with a whole kaboodle of peripherals, audio interfaces, keyboards, controllers, etc hanging off it, and several big-ass screens, 4 in my case, for max screen real estate for all that software.
    Hopefully some of these screens will be replaced by multitouch screens quite soon, as the applications and OS transition to intelligently support multitouch, but for the moment, from my point of view, “the great convergence” is very appealling, but still some way away.

  • lala
  • lala
  • lala
  • Marty LeBlanc

    That hinge looks fugly… And also, it doesn’t seem to close properly…

    • DPrty

      The hinge looks really cool. I might just buy it for the hinge alone.

  • Marty LeBlanc

    That hinge looks fugly… And also, it doesn’t seem to close properly…

    • DPrty

      The hinge looks really cool. I might just buy it for the hinge alone.

  • Marty LeBlanc

    That hinge looks fugly… And also, it doesn’t seem to close properly…

    • DPrty

      The hinge looks really cool. I might just buy it for the hinge alone.

  • withakay

    Thanks for the round up Pete. One correction though, the hinge doesn’t fold flat. The screen is reversible though so it can be closed with the touch screen facing out.

  • withakay

    Thanks for the round up Pete. One correction though, the hinge doesn’t fold flat. The screen is reversible though so it can be closed with the touch screen facing out.

  • withakay

    Thanks for the round up Pete. One correction though, the hinge doesn’t fold flat. The screen is reversible though so it can be closed with the touch screen facing out.

  • Wahrheitsfinder

    Forget Apple! Jobs is dead!

  • Wahrheitsfinder

    Forget Apple! Jobs is dead!

  • Wahrheitsfinder

    Forget Apple! Jobs is dead!

  • Frank

    So this thing runs Android as well ? Because, otherwise a comment like “..you don’t have to keep buying a separate tablet” makes no sense.Like, please explain how to run all those wondeful music apps, instruments etc that already exist for iOS/Android if this Surface Book doesn’t run on either one OS.

  • Frank

    So this thing runs Android as well ? Because, otherwise a comment like “..you don’t have to keep buying a separate tablet” makes no sense.Like, please explain how to run all those wondeful music apps, instruments etc that already exist for iOS/Android if this Surface Book doesn’t run on either one OS.

  • Frank

    So this thing runs Android as well ? Because, otherwise a comment like “..you don’t have to keep buying a separate tablet” makes no sense.Like, please explain how to run all those wondeful music apps, instruments etc that already exist for iOS/Android if this Surface Book doesn’t run on either one OS.

  • Dave

    This might sound like a silly question, but can you still type with the keyboard if it’s separated and you’re in tablet mode (ie bluetooth)? The reason I ask is in addition to music, I do animation. It would be extremely handy to be able to draw on the tablet and then have the keyboard sitting next to your other hand so you could use hot keys while you draw.

  • Dave

    This might sound like a silly question, but can you still type with the keyboard if it’s separated and you’re in tablet mode (ie bluetooth)? The reason I ask is in addition to music, I do animation. It would be extremely handy to be able to draw on the tablet and then have the keyboard sitting next to your other hand so you could use hot keys while you draw.

  • Dave

    This might sound like a silly question, but can you still type with the keyboard if it’s separated and you’re in tablet mode (ie bluetooth)? The reason I ask is in addition to music, I do animation. It would be extremely handy to be able to draw on the tablet and then have the keyboard sitting next to your other hand so you could use hot keys while you draw.

  • Still has to run Windows which makes it subpar.

    • Robin Parmar

      Do you also comment on every berry pie recipe complaining there are no apples?

  • Still has to run Windows which makes it subpar.

    • Robin Parmar

      Do you also comment on every berry pie recipe complaining there are no apples?

  • Still has to run Windows which makes it subpar.

    • Do you also comment on every berry pie recipe complaining there are no apples?

  • bvocal

    Even though I do rather like my Windows desktop, I do not trust MS to take the needs of creatives seriously, or when they do something good for creatives to actually carry that through. On the other hand, with the Apple top of the like desktop computer and the ipad pro I see apple taking it’s hard core users seriously (again). Considering that iOS is running on a UNIX core just like OSX… and the computing power built into the ipad pro, I kinda expect to see apple blur the lines and perhaps begin supporting desktop applications on iOS, either that or I fully expect desktop application makers to built a way more 2 way and seamless bridge between the desktop and iOS versions of it’s software. I am quite taken with the ipad pro with Procreate 3 and the apple pencil, and I reckon some people, say the Z-brush people, or mudbox folks, will start to make ipad versions….
    But I could be wrong. Time will tell.

    • orpickanamo

      Take the needs of creatives seriously? Cough cough. Mac doesn’t support multitouch natively, I have to buy 3rd party drivers for, what, something like $150 at least, just to use a multitouch monitor?

  • bvocal

    Even though I do rather like my Windows desktop, I do not trust MS to take the needs of creatives seriously, or when they do something good for creatives to actually carry that through. On the other hand, with the Apple top of the like desktop computer and the ipad pro I see apple taking it’s hard core users seriously (again). Considering that iOS is running on a UNIX core just like OSX… and the computing power built into the ipad pro, I kinda expect to see apple blur the lines and perhaps begin supporting desktop applications on iOS, either that or I fully expect desktop application makers to built a way more 2 way and seamless bridge between the desktop and iOS versions of it’s software. I am quite taken with the ipad pro with Procreate 3 and the apple pencil, and I reckon some people, say the Z-brush people, or mudbox folks, will start to make ipad versions….
    But I could be wrong. Time will tell.

    • orpickanamo

      Take the needs of creatives seriously? Cough cough. Mac doesn’t support multitouch natively, I have to buy 3rd party drivers for, what, something like $150 at least, just to use a multitouch monitor.

  • bvocal

    Even though I do rather like my Windows desktop, I do not trust MS to take the needs of creatives seriously, or when they do something good for creatives to actually carry that through. On the other hand, with the Apple top of the like desktop computer and the ipad pro I see apple taking it’s hard core users seriously (again). Considering that iOS is running on a UNIX core just like OSX… and the computing power built into the ipad pro, I kinda expect to see apple blur the lines and perhaps begin supporting desktop applications on iOS, either that or I fully expect desktop application makers to built a way more 2 way and seamless bridge between the desktop and iOS versions of it’s software. I am quite taken with the ipad pro with Procreate 3 and the apple pencil, and I reckon some people, say the Z-brush people, or mudbox folks, will start to make ipad versions….
    But I could be wrong. Time will tell.

    • Pickard

      Take the needs of creatives seriously? Cough cough. Mac doesn’t support multitouch natively, I have to buy 3rd party drivers for, what, something like $150 at least, just to use a multitouch monitor.

  • Graham Metcalfe

    This looks pretty nice. The only thing I am dubious about is the venting that runs around the perimeter of the device. Lots of area to have stuff get inside the case. Hopefully they have some sort of really good screening that keeps out crud while allowing for ventilation.

    • whynot_loco

      good point which is why I want to wait until it is reviewed thoroughly when it is released. My other concern is the discrete GPU. I have a Sony VAIO with discrete GPU which allows you to switch between the integrated Intel and the AMD GPU, it sucks. Wondering how this laptop will perform if you have an app open such as Abobe Premier and in the middle disconnect the screen from the keyboard, where the GPU resides. hmmm

  • Graham Metcalfe

    This looks pretty nice. The only thing I am dubious about is the venting that runs around the perimeter of the device. Lots of area to have stuff get inside the case. Hopefully they have some sort of really good screening that keeps out crud while allowing for ventilation.

    • whynot_loco

      good point which is why I want to wait until it is reviewed thoroughly when it is released. My other concern is the discrete GPU. I have a Sony VAIO with discrete GPU which allows you to switch between the integrated Intel and the AMD GPU, it sucks. Wondering how this laptop will perform if you have an app open such as Abobe Premier and in the middle disconnect the screen from the keyboard, where the GPU resides. hmmm

  • Graham Metcalfe

    This looks pretty nice. The only thing I am dubious about is the venting that runs around the perimeter of the device. Lots of area to have stuff get inside the case. Hopefully they have some sort of really good screening that keeps out crud while allowing for ventilation.

    • whynot_loco

      good point which is why I want to wait until it is reviewed thoroughly when it is released. My other concern is the discrete GPU. I have a Sony VAIO with discrete GPU which allows you to switch between the integrated Intel and the AMD GPU, it sucks. Wondering how this laptop will perform if you have an app open such as Abobe Premier and in the middle disconnect the screen from the keyboard, where the GPU resides. hmmm

  • FabriciusRex

    I would pre-order this if I could. Hopefully it will be available in Sweden Q1/Q2 next year.

    A question. Do you have a source on that it folds all the way back. As far as I konw it does not.

  • FabriciusRex

    I would pre-order this if I could. Hopefully it will be available in Sweden Q1/Q2 next year.

    A question. Do you have a source on that it folds all the way back. As far as I konw it does not.

  • FabriciusRex

    I would pre-order this if I could. Hopefully it will be available in Sweden Q1/Q2 next year.

    A question. Do you have a source on that it folds all the way back. As far as I konw it does not.

  • lala

    @peterkirn:disqus where is that PR Photo of Thavius Beck. from?
    M$ or Bitwig?
    look what he is doing?
    they are really making PR with it like that?
    they are trolling ^^

  • lala

    @peterkirn:disqus where is that PR Photo of Thavius Beck. from?
    M$ or Bitwig?
    look what he is doing?
    they are really making PR with it like that?
    they are trolling ^^

  • lala

    @peterkirn:disqus where is that PR Photo of Thavius Beck. from?
    M$ or Bitwig?
    look what he is doing?
    they are really making PR with it like that?
    they are trolling ^^

  • Tekknovator

    There is more to Microsofts strategy then devices Peter. Beeing a real Apple fanboy myself Microsoft does not only provide an answer to why I carry an iPad an an MBA in my bag but also from a developper pov: The new visual studio allows export of Android AND iOS AND Windows universal (and more). Microsoft, as much as it makes me cringe, has become a new, whider open Standard facillitator then many others in the IT world. They are embracing culture as a niche just as much as military contracts (these drones don’t run linux or Mac OS…). Apple on the other hand makes the impression of starting to clam: Metal vs. Open GL, x code is only great to develop for Apple platforms and slow pro hardware iterations…
    The next two years will tell if MS keeps its promised commitment up or if they recede to the datacenter and enterprise.
    My third Point is the advantage of the Windows kernel over the mac OS Kernel, this is from measurements rather then source studies or literature, so real life experience rather then theory. Latencies can be lower with ASIO as with core audio. Much has changed from windows xp to windows 10 on that front.
    Beeing fully inside the Apple ecosystem I only hope Apple hears the call and does not only try to be a luxury goods vendor or start a new processor war (Ax vs x86 vs Arm)…
    Just ranting (sick in bed 😉 )

    • orpickanamo

      Hope you’ve gotten well! 🙂

      “Latencies can be lower with ASIO as with core audio. Much has changed from windows xp to windows 10 on that front.”

      This. I like to see more evidence on this. (I just watched the video where a MS engineer addressed Pro Audio improvements in Win10). But I’m glad that the work has been done over the years, not something that they just come up with recently!

  • Tekknovator

    There is more to Microsofts strategy then devices Peter. Beeing a real Apple fanboy myself Microsoft does not only provide an answer to why I carry an iPad an an MBA in my bag but also from a developper pov: The new visual studio allows export of Android AND iOS AND Windows universal (and more). Microsoft, as much as it makes me cringe, has become a new, whider open Standard facillitator then many others in the IT world. They are embracing culture as a niche just as much as military contracts (these drones don’t run linux or Mac OS…). Apple on the other hand makes the impression of starting to clam: Metal vs. Open GL, x code is only great to develop for Apple platforms and slow pro hardware iterations…
    The next two years will tell if MS keeps its promised commitment up or if they recede to the datacenter and enterprise.
    My third Point is the advantage of the Windows kernel over the mac OS Kernel, this is from measurements rather then source studies or literature, so real life experience rather then theory. Latencies can be lower with ASIO as with core audio. Much has changed from windows xp to windows 10 on that front.
    Beeing fully inside the Apple ecosystem I only hope Apple hears the call and does not only try to be a luxury goods vendor or start a new processor war (Ax vs x86 vs Arm)…
    Just ranting (sick in bed 😉 )

    • orpickanamo

      Hope you’ve gotten well! 🙂

      “Latencies can be lower with ASIO as with core audio. Much has changed from windows xp to windows 10 on that front.”

      This. I like to see more evidence on this. (I just watched the video where a MS engineer addressed Pro Audio improvements in Win10). But I’m glad that the work has been done over the years, not something that they just come up with recently!

  • Tekknovator

    There is more to Microsofts strategy then devices Peter. Beeing a real Apple fanboy myself Microsoft does not only provide an answer to why I carry an iPad an an MBA in my bag but also from a developper pov: The new visual studio allows export of Android AND iOS AND Windows universal (and more). Microsoft, as much as it makes me cringe, has become a new, whider open Standard facillitator then many others in the IT world. They are embracing culture as a niche just as much as military contracts (these drones don’t run linux or Mac OS…). Apple on the other hand makes the impression of starting to clam: Metal vs. Open GL, x code is only great to develop for Apple platforms and slow pro hardware iterations…
    The next two years will tell if MS keeps its promised commitment up or if they recede to the datacenter and enterprise.
    My third Point is the advantage of the Windows kernel over the mac OS Kernel, this is from measurements rather then source studies or literature, so real life experience rather then theory. Latencies can be lower with ASIO as with core audio. Much has changed from windows xp to windows 10 on that front.
    Beeing fully inside the Apple ecosystem I only hope Apple hears the call and does not only try to be a luxury goods vendor or start a new processor war (Ax vs x86 vs Arm)…
    Just ranting (sick in bed 😉 )

    • Pickard

      Hope you’ve gotten well! 🙂

      “Latencies can be lower with ASIO as with core audio. Much has changed from windows xp to windows 10 on that front.”

      This. I like to see more evidence on this. (I just watched the video where a MS engineer addressed Pro Audio improvements in Win10). But I’m glad that the work has been done over the years, not something that they just come up with recently!

  • Will

    The product page at Microsoft says it has “10 point multi-touch”, and I’m sure it does, but every single image of someone interacting with it showcases a pen. And they market the pen based approach early and often. From their page:

    Turn the screen around and reattach it to use Surface Book like a creative canvas. By reconnecting it to the keyboard, you unlock its full creative power in a pen first mode

    The 13.5” PixelSense™ display detaches easily from the keyboard to become a thin, light tablet that works perfectly with OneNote and Surface Pen

    Surely there will continue to a growing pool of touch based Windows apps, including musical ones, but I don’t think this is going to be any sort of serious catalyst to make that pool grow significantly faster. This is designed to run an OS that is still meant to be run from a keyboard and exacting pointing device (mouse or pen). And at (more like) $1800-$2k, it’s not like musicians are going to be eating these up.

    This is a nice looking machine and I’m glad to see Microsoft swinging for the fences but I think it’s priced a little too high, and is a little too purpose confused, to start a revolution.

    • You really do have to spend some time with one and Windows 10 to “Get it” I wasn’t convinced by marketing at first but got a Surface 3 to replace my larger older laptop and I have a mouse, a pen and a keyboard (with touch pad) and its not about having to use it in a certain way, the peripherals are all tools, you use different input methods for different tasks just like you would different tools in your toolbox.
      Nobody is saying users have to use a pen to replace your mouse but it does lend itself very well for design (many designers already use a tablet and pen peripheral) or handwriting, Staffpad music notation software is an ideal example of an app that was written specifically for the pen, the developers did try at first to write the app for ipad but gave up because the interaction was wrong for score writers who all traditionally still write with pencil and manuscript paper.
      It really does seem like a lot of people have a mental block and seem to want to be force fed ways to work.
      Many apps are not written for the pen so do not take advantage of its benefits but thats happening more and more, you can expect a new product to hit the market and instanly every developer is optimized for it, it takes time draw a parallel to Apples “retina” display not all apps are optimized for it but not being so does not hamper your use of the app but for apps that are optimized the user has a elevated user experience.
      Same goes for the OS, its not meant to be run from a keyboard, it entirely depends on what you want to do and how you want to use it with cortana and touch you can quite happily not touch the keyboard or even have it attached for many day to day tasks,
      Its all about choice and i’d never complain about having more choice and freedom to get my work done in the most open and creative ways possible.

  • Will

    The product page at Microsoft says it has “10 point multi-touch”, and I’m sure it does, but every single image of someone interacting with it showcases a pen. And they market the pen based approach early and often. From their page:

    Turn the screen around and reattach it to use Surface Book like a creative canvas. By reconnecting it to the keyboard, you unlock its full creative power in a pen first mode

    The 13.5” PixelSense™ display detaches easily from the keyboard to become a thin, light tablet that works perfectly with OneNote and Surface Pen

    Surely there will continue to a growing pool of touch based Windows apps, including musical ones, but I don’t think this is going to be any sort of serious catalyst to make that pool grow significantly faster. This is designed to run an OS that is still meant to be run from a keyboard and exacting pointing device (mouse or pen). And at (more like) $1800-$2k, it’s not like musicians are going to be eating these up.

    This is a nice looking machine and I’m glad to see Microsoft swinging for the fences but I think it’s priced a little too high, and is a little too purpose confused, to start a revolution.

    • You really do have to spend some time with one and Windows 10 to “Get it” I wasn’t convinced by marketing at first but got a Surface 3 to replace my larger older laptop and I have a mouse, a pen and a keyboard (with touch pad) and its not about having to use it in a certain way, the peripherals are all tools, you use different input methods for different tasks just like you would different tools in your toolbox.
      Nobody is saying users have to use a pen to replace your mouse but it does lend itself very well for design (many designers already use a tablet and pen peripheral) or handwriting, Staffpad music notation software is an ideal example of an app that was written specifically for the pen, the developers did try at first to write the app for ipad but gave up because the interaction was wrong for score writers who all traditionally still write with pencil and manuscript paper.
      It really does seem like a lot of people have a mental block and seem to want to be force fed ways to work.
      Many apps are not written for the pen so do not take advantage of its benefits but thats happening more and more, you can expect a new product to hit the market and instanly every developer is optimized for it, it takes time draw a parallel to Apples “retina” display not all apps are optimized for it but not being so does not hamper your use of the app but for apps that are optimized the user has a elevated user experience.
      Same goes for the OS, its not meant to be run from a keyboard, it entirely depends on what you want to do and how you want to use it with cortana and touch you can quite happily not touch the keyboard or even have it attached for many day to day tasks,
      Its all about choice and i’d never complain about having more choice and freedom to get my work done in the most open and creative ways possible.

  • Will

    The product page at Microsoft says it has “10 point multi-touch”, and I’m sure it does, but every single image of someone interacting with it showcases a pen. And they market the pen based approach early and often. From their page:

    Turn the screen around and reattach it to use Surface Book like a creative canvas. By reconnecting it to the keyboard, you unlock its full creative power in a pen first mode

    The 13.5” PixelSense™ display detaches easily from the keyboard to become a thin, light tablet that works perfectly with OneNote and Surface Pen

    Surely there will continue to a growing pool of touch based Windows apps, including musical ones, but I don’t think this is going to be any sort of serious catalyst to make that pool grow significantly faster. This is designed to run an OS that is still meant to be run from a keyboard and exacting pointing device (mouse or pen). And at (more like) $1800-$2k, it’s not like musicians are going to be eating these up.

    This is a nice looking machine and I’m glad to see Microsoft swinging for the fences but I think it’s priced a little too high, and is a little too purpose confused, to start a revolution.

    • You really do have to spend some time with one and Windows 10 to “Get it” I wasn’t convinced by marketing at first but got a Surface 3 to replace my larger older laptop and I have a mouse, a pen and a keyboard (with touch pad) and its not about having to use it in a certain way, the peripherals are all tools, you use different input methods for different tasks just like you would different tools in your toolbox.
      Nobody is saying users have to use a pen to replace your mouse but it does lend itself very well for design (many designers already use a tablet and pen peripheral) or handwriting, Staffpad music notation software is an ideal example of an app that was written specifically for the pen, the developers did try at first to write the app for ipad but gave up because the interaction was wrong for score writers who all traditionally still write with pencil and manuscript paper.
      It really does seem like a lot of people have a mental block and seem to want to be force fed ways to work.
      Many apps are not written for the pen so do not take advantage of its benefits but thats happening more and more, you can expect a new product to hit the market and instanly every developer is optimized for it, it takes time draw a parallel to Apples “retina” display not all apps are optimized for it but not being so does not hamper your use of the app but for apps that are optimized the user has a elevated user experience.
      Same goes for the OS, its not meant to be run from a keyboard, it entirely depends on what you want to do and how you want to use it with cortana and touch you can quite happily not touch the keyboard or even have it attached for many day to day tasks,
      Its all about choice and i’d never complain about having more choice and freedom to get my work done in the most open and creative ways possible.

  • baju-baju

    Drag the beast home, scope the latest ASIO drivers, no, not this one, that one, reboot, check the forums, oh, installed drivers in wrong order, check forums, instal the older version, now for MIDI routing, oh cool – a new game!

  • baju-baju

    Drag the beast home, scope the latest ASIO drivers, no, not this one, that one, reboot, check the forums, oh, installed drivers in wrong order, check forums, instal the older version, now for MIDI routing, oh cool – a new game!

  • baju-baju

    Drag the beast home, scope the latest ASIO drivers, no, not this one, that one, reboot, check the forums, oh, installed drivers in wrong order, check forums, instal the older version, now for MIDI routing, oh cool – a new game!

  • baju-baju

    The keyboard looks familiar. And a glass trackpad – WOW! Full of new ideas. I’m sure it will sell like the Zune! On a serious side, I really like banner on MS website stating: I runs Windows and Office perfectly. Innovative concept really. I can’t wait to see the power supply for it.

  • baju-baju

    The keyboard looks familiar. And a glass trackpad – WOW! Full of new ideas. I’m sure it will sell like the Zune! On a serious side, I really like banner on MS website stating: I runs Windows and Office perfectly. Innovative concept really. I can’t wait to see the power supply for it.

  • baju-baju

    The keyboard looks familiar. And a glass trackpad – WOW! Full of new ideas. I’m sure it will sell like the Zune! On a serious side, I really like banner on MS website stating: I runs Windows and Office perfectly. Innovative concept really. I can’t wait to see the power supply for it.

  • whynot_loco

    Easy solution for Mac lovers, just virtualize the Mac OS on the surface book. Ohh wait you Apple dudes are not tech savvy. (please don’t compare the surface book or a surface pro to an iPad).

  • whynot_loco

    Easy solution for Mac lovers, just virtualize the Mac OS on the surface book. Ohh wait you Apple dudes are not tech savvy. (please don’t compare the surface book or a surface pro to an iPad).

  • whynot_loco

    Easy solution for Mac lovers, just virtualize the Mac OS on the surface book. Ohh wait you Apple dudes are not tech savvy. (please don’t compare the surface book or a surface pro to an iPad).

  • Ryan

    Actually graham its kind of hard to tell its not a mac….

  • Ryan

    Actually graham its kind of hard to tell its not a mac….

  • Ryan

    Actually graham its kind of hard to tell its not a mac….