Betty Apple’s Taiwan Bay Be is a full-length album exploring Taiwanese identity, time travel, sound, and the cosmic. Released this year on our Establishment, Betty is now in Berlin for a live presentation on Wednesday – and she has a lot to say, from unpacking the mermaid fairy tail to imagining science fiction futures and sound’s relationship to “God” and life after death.
I don’t want to say too much more than that, as Betty’s answers stand on their own. They’re presented here in her native tongue and machine-human hybrid translations, unedited, which produces a rhythm of language only Betty and AI can achieve.
Here’s the full album, available to stream and download:
If you’re in Berlin, come listen to Betty Apple join Yoni, Adrienne Herr, sailormenx (VJ), and myself live at Studio dB Wednesday evening June 26:
photo credit, top (featured) and below:
AUSPIC PAPER and Chien Wen Lin
Interview
Betty Apple writes:
## 關於人魚的意涵
## On the Meaning of Mermaids
我之前的作品討論人魚的意涵有許多面向。人魚是關於意識形態上的反思。首先，從童話故事裡的小美人魚去檢視在人魚故事裡，對於愛情的自我犧牲以及婚姻作為經濟共同體的概念。小美人魚就像移民一樣，在自己的世界裡備受尊重，但為了愛犧牲一切。她失去了能自由移動的方法，沒有了聲音，最後看到心愛的人與鄰國公主結婚。姐妹們要她殺掉王子以取回自己的尾巴，而故事結尾卻是小美人魚自殺成了泡沫進天堂。這是我一直不能理解的童話故事。
In my previous works, I have discussed the meaning of mermaids from various perspectives. Mermaids are a reflection on ideology. Firstly, examining the mermaid from the fairy tale, we see the themes of self-sacrifice for love and marriage as an economic community. The little mermaid is like an immigrant, respected in her own world but sacrificing everything for love. She loses her freedom of movement, her voice, and ultimately sees her beloved marry a princess from a neighboring country. Her sisters urge her to kill the prince to regain her tail, but the story ends with the little mermaid committing suicide, turning into foam, and ascending to heaven. This is a fairy tale I have never understood.
photo credit: Max J
她其實很像華人或是亞洲文化裡面教育女性必須吞忍犧牲自己。我認為人魚不需要殺掉王子，但是她可以認清自己不需要王子也能夠好好的在異地活下去。也是以此為一象徵討論台灣是一個充滿移民與殖民文化的島嶼，台灣的歷史從舊石器時代開始，有16個原住民族群。明朝時漢人移居台灣，清朝時台灣被納入中國版圖。1895年，台灣割讓給日本，1945年日本戰敗後，台灣被交還給中華民國。1949年，國共內戰使大量國民黨軍隊和難民撤退到台灣，形成了多元文化的移民融合。
She is reminiscent of how women in Chinese or Asian cultures are often taught to endure and sacrifice themselves. I believe the mermaid doesn’t need to kill the prince; she can realize that she doesn’t need the prince to live well in a foreign land. This can symbolize Taiwan as an island rich in immigrant and colonial cultures. Taiwan’s history began in the Paleolithic era, with 16 indigenous tribes. During the Ming Dynasty, Han Chinese migrated to Taiwan, and in the Qing Dynasty, Taiwan was incorporated into China’s territory. In 1895, Taiwan was ceded to Japan. After Japan’s defeat in 1945, Taiwan was returned to the Republic of China. In 1949, the Chinese Civil War led to a mass retreat of Nationalist troops and refugees to Taiwan, leading to a multicultural integration of immigrants.
但回到台灣人魚的想像，主要因為台灣四面環海，卻因為歷史的斷層以及漢人的主要殖民，關於海的故事反而較少。我開始以身為在這個島嶼的感受去思考是否我們是有人魚，因為台灣目前的首都台北曾經有過一段時間它是一座巨大的湖泊。我也算是用近未來的科幻想法去想，當未來地球暖化後，人們可能會與AI機器結合成為未來的人魚住回到海底。
But returning to the imagination of Taiwanese mermaids, primarily because Taiwan is surrounded by sea yet has few stories about the ocean due to historical discontinuities and Han Chinese colonization. I began to think about whether we might have mermaids based on my feelings of living on this island. Taipei, the current capital of Taiwan, was once a massive lake. I also use a near-future science fiction approach to imagine that after future global warming, people might combine with AI machines to become future mermaids living back under the sea.
I imagine that after future global warming, people might combine with AI machines to become future mermaids living back under the sea.
而又從中國神話《山海經》這個故事，也曾經提到可能台灣這個島嶼是一群住民腳上刺著鱗片，甚至說台灣可能是過往的“亞特蘭提斯”與“穆”大陸，這些網路傳說成了幻想過往的歷史是否如我們今天所討論的大寫者歷史之不同。
From the Chinese mythological story “The Classic of Mountains and Seas,” it is also mentioned that Taiwan might be an island where the inhabitants had scales on their feet. Some even say Taiwan could be the past “Atlantis” or the “Mu” continent. These online legends have become fantasies about whether the past history is different from the capitalized History we discuss today.
illustration from the Classic of Mountains and Seas (Shan Hai Jing) – colored edition from the Qing dynasty (1644–1911) / source
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## 關於活火山的意象
## On the Imagery of Living with a Volcano
台灣的首都台北境內就有溫泉，有溫泉代表著活火山，但人們都一如往常的生活著。對我而言，想像火山噴發就像是一種不會存在的存在，就好像面對死亡，你知道我們都會進入死亡，但從來不會總是想到死亡，反而是一種活著的感受更加深刻。尤其是泡溫泉的時候，你會覺得自己跟這個地球很近。你在一個危險的炸彈上生活著，賭注著暫時的平靜。對我而言是一種很奇妙的跟危險和平共存。
There are hot springs in Taipei, the capital of Taiwan, which signifies the presence of active volcanoes, yet people live their lives as usual. For me, imagining a volcanic eruption is like a non-existent existence, much like facing death. We know we will all eventually face death, but we do not constantly think about it. Instead, it deepens the sense of being alive. Especially when soaking in a hot spring, you feel very close to the earth. Living on a dangerous bomb, you gamble on temporary peace. For me, it is a wonderful coexistence with danger.
photo credit: Max J
credit: Tom Hsu (writing in the back reads, “A calm and contented mind brings happiness.”)
## 關於隨機聲音與“神”的聯繫
## On the Connection Between Random Sound and “God”
神對我而言是一種“存在”。認清存在的守則是感受先於思考，思考引領我們在小我裡面導致我們觀看存在會解釋為混亂，真正的存在是有機性的隨機而能創造多樣性，生命來自多樣性的共榮，就如我說台灣的歷史很斷層，卻在這些斷層中長出了我。
God, to me, is a kind of “existence.” Recognizing the rules of existence is to feel before thinking. Thinking leads us within the ego, causing us to interpret existence as chaos. True existence is organic randomness that can create diversity. Life comes from the symbiosis of diversity. Just like I said, Taiwan’s history is full of discontinuities, yet I have grown out of these discontinuities.
Taiwan’s history is full of discontinuities, yet I have grown out of these discontinuities.
## 關於作為藝術家的背景
## On My Background as an Artist
我的背景是劇場以及表演、電影、多媒體。我嘗試用自己的身體政治去感受創造非大寫歷史者的世界觀。
My background is in theater, performance, film, and multimedia. I try to use my own body politics to feel and create a worldview that is not from the perspective of capitalized History.
## 關於音樂製作工具
## On the Tools I Use for Music Production
大部分的音樂我都使用電腦音樂軟體，以及錄音聲檔。有些VST我用了十年。我對電子音樂的創作方法是龐克的，也由於我的資源從我開始接觸電子樂創作的時候是非常稀少的，所以我習慣以極簡直接的音樂表情，把數位音樂當作抽象畫去玩弄它們的聲音彩度與深度與節奏自由調配，去展現更多非語言的抽象情感。
Most of my music is created using computer music software and recorded sound files. Some VSTs I have used for ten years. My approach to electronic music creation is punk. Because my resources were very limited when I first started creating electronic music, I got used to expressing music in a minimalistic and direct way, treating digital music like abstract painting. I play with their tonal and depth and rhythm to freely present more non-verbal abstract emotions.
## 關於時空穿越的敘事
## On the Time-Traveling Narrative
這是我在2020年的時候，正在研究網路上的時空穿越者。有個時空穿越者在網路上聲稱自己是來自2060年的人，他在2019年的時候預言了許多世界將發生的事情，但他透過了訊號能夠時空穿越回到2019年，當時他想要尋找一個他想要找的人。人們詢問他的性別，他說在時空穿越的時候，是沒有性別的。這讓我感觸很
深刻，於是我就以此為靈感去創作一種時空穿越時的感受。
This is from 2020 when I was researching time travelers on the internet. A time traveler claimed to be from 2060 and had predicted many events that would happen in the world. He could time travel back to 2019 through signals when he wanted to find someone he was looking for. When people asked about his gender, he said there is no gender during time travel. This made a deep impression on me, so I created a feeling of time travel inspired by this.
## 關於Techno音樂的意涵
## On the Meaning of Techno Music
我是一個對聲音很敏感的人，很多聲音對我而言我會聽到的是音律。反而在規則內的旋律樂音會讓我感到死氣沉沉。我不喜歡重複教條的音樂，我喜歡像是海浪般的重複卻又複雜的聲音。Techno就是這個感覺，它的重複與形變就像是海或是宇宙給我的感受。
I am very sensitive to sounds. To me, many sounds have musicality. In contrast, melodies within rules make me feel lifeless. I don’t like repetitive, doctrinal music; I prefer repetitive yet complex sounds like waves. Techno gives me this feeling. Its repetition and variation feel like the sea or the universe to me.
Techno對我而言像是以頻率產生非物質空間，是一場身心靈的跨維度旅行。在台灣，道教信仰常常會使用重複鼓聲與銅鑼與重複性的詩詞去建構出道教神明降臨到乩童身上的過程，這也常常讓我在Techno的舞廳裡感受到類似的對話方法，彷彿我可以接應到非物質世界的宇宙觀。
Techno, to me, creates a non-material space through frequencies, a trans-dimensional journey for body, mind, and spirit. In Taiwan, Taoist beliefs often use repetitive drum beats and gongs, along with repetitive verses, to construct the process of Taoist gods descending into mediums. This often makes me feel a similar method of dialogue in Techno clubs, as if I can connect to a cosmology of the non-material world.
## 關於台灣身份的意義
## On the Significance of Taiwanese Identity
這個我想留給聽眾從這張專輯裡去理解。
This, I want to leave for the listeners to understand from this album.
phoro credit, from top: TheCube Project Space, Yao Xiang
## 關於舞台角色與音樂製作
## On Stage Persona and Music Production
我在25歲以前是學習戲劇表演，但是人生最初始的時候，我非常喜歡音樂，但是因為家境失去了學習的管道，直到我擁有了第一台筆電，它的內建軟體不僅讓我可以彈奏，更可以拼湊出我自己感受到的世界和情緒。當我沒有戲演的時候，我就玩那些訊號，建立出的電子音樂，讓我感覺非常快樂，因為它沒有一個固定的道理。創作的隨機穿越與抽象反而更讓我接近我感受的難以言喻的寫實。就像是心靈的蒙太奇。
Before I was 25, I studied drama performance. However, at the beginning of my life, I loved music very much but lost the means to study due to my family’s financial situation. It wasn’t until I had my first laptop that its built-in software allowed me to not only play music but also piece together the world and emotions I felt. When I had no acting roles, I played with those signals, creating electronic music, which made me very happy because it had no fixed logic. The randomness and abstraction of creation brought me closer to the indescribable realism I felt, like a montage of the soul.
也由於過去失去了學習的管道，我覺得沒有在樂理基礎的創建音樂更可以展現出一個人的頻率、個性、甚至節奏。我相信人在肉體死亡後會有另一種存在，也許就成了外星人（不在星球上的人），但他是可以看見頻率的，而我在我的音樂裡去創建我的靈魂的質地，也許不是最好聽的，但是它們都是一種去音樂性的音樂存在，相反的，你可以感受到的是靈魂。
Because I lost the means to study in the past, I believe that creating music without a theoretical basis can better showcase a person’s frequency, personality, and even rhythm. I believe that after physical death, there is another kind of existence, maybe becoming an alien (a person not on the planet), but they can see frequencies. In my music, I create the texture of my soul. It may not be the best-sounding, but they exist as de-musicalized music. On the contrary, you can feel the soul.
I believe that creating music without a theoretical basis can better showcase a person’s frequency, personality, and even rhythm. I believe that after physical death, there is another kind of existence.
photo credit: Lexi Laphor
photo: Chien Wen Lin
## 關於“Alien Lovers”
## On “Alien Lovers”
創作這首歌時，我覺得我就是充滿愛來這個地球理解世界的外星人，也送給那些理解頻率的外星人。
When creating this song, I felt like I was an alien full of love coming to Earth to understand the world, and I dedicate it to those aliens who understand frequencies.
## 關於“Making Love in Taipei”
## On “Making Love in Taipei”
這是一段我當時經歷深刻的愛與靈魂暗夜的電影。
This is a sound movie of deep love and a dark night of the soul that I experienced at that time.
This is a sound movie of deep love and a dark night of the soul that I experienced at that time.
Album: